Attonment on a Lich?

[CrimsonWineGlass]

After reading the "Where would you put it" thread and I got curious on ways to play a lich in a non-evil campaign. First thing that came to mind of course, was the druid/cleric attonment spell. It states in the SRD that becoming a lich is an unspeakably evil act, and can only be done by an evil character. So could a good PC, when forced by circumstance (guard this treasure for thousands of years, etc) become a lich, and afterwards, seek attonment. Also, could somebody be turned into a lich unwillingly? Overall, is there any way to play a non-evil lich?

 

[Seeten]

I hate value judgements in the SRD that make no sense.

Further, its setting specific, depending on whether being a Lich is "Unspeakably Evil" or not. In Eberron, there are lots of elves where this is false. In Scarred Lands, in several cases, there are good and neutral liches, so this passage in the SRD is worthless, IMO, its not the job of the SRD to inform on setting, but on rules.

There is no reason, by the rules, that becoming a Lich need be an unspeakably evil and irredeemable act. Further settings put out, including by WoTC have shown this is true.

There is my Lich rant.

 

[IcyCool]

The Dread Necromancer base class from Heroes of Horror. You need to have a non-good alignment to be a member of the class, and it's 20th level ability turns you into a lich. So you couldn't be a good lich, but you could be a neutral lich.

 

[pawsplay]

Yes, they can attone.

No, you cannot be turned into a lich unwillingly. Becoming a lich involves locking your soul in a phylactery as a way of preserving your magical power. You could unwillingly become a hucueva, and although it's unlikely, a necropolitan (LM).

Yes, some settings in the past past have included "arch-liches" who have variant lich characteristics, who are not necessarily evil.

In any case it's possible for someone to perform the Evil act of becoming a lich while themselves not becoming evil... liches are Always evil, which means less than one percent of them don't have an evil alignment, but it is a theoretical possibility.

I believe Dread Necromancers become liches, but don't have to be evil. I would imagine that a non-evil lich would be a scholar of death similar to the DN or perhaps a necromancer or cleric of a death or funerary god.

Personally, I'd rather play a lich as "evil but well mannered and smart."

 

[frankthedm]

IMG atonement for a lich involves it willfully destroying its phylactary and then willfully destroying itself.

Overall, is there any way to play a non-evil lich?

Not unless the DM is cool with it.

Atonement
Abjuration
Level: Clr 5, Drd 5
Components: V, S, M, F, DF, XP
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell removes the burden of evil acts or misdeeds from the subject. The creature seeking atonement must be truly repentant and desirous of setting right its misdeeds. If the atoning creature committed the evil act unwittingly or under some form of compulsion, atonement operates normally at no cost to you. However, in the case of a creature atoning for deliberate misdeeds and acts of a knowing and willful nature, you must intercede with your deity (requiring you to expend 500 XP) in order to expunge the subject’s burden. Many casters first assign a subject of this sort a quest (see geas/quest) or similar penance to determine whether the creature is truly contrite before casting the atonement spell on its behalf.

Atonement may be cast for one of several purposes, depending on the version selected.

Reverse Magical Alignment Change
If a creature has had its alignment magically changed, atonement returns its alignment to its original status at no cost in experience points.

Restore Class
A paladin who has lost her class features due to committing an evil act may have her paladinhood restored to her by this spell.

Restore Cleric or Druid Spell Powers
A cleric or druid who has lost the ability to cast spells by incurring the anger of his or her deity may regain that ability by seeking atonement from another cleric of the same deity or another druid. If the transgression was intentional, the casting cleric loses 500 XP for his intercession. If the transgression was unintentional, he does not lose XP.

Redemption or Temptation
You may cast this spell upon a creature of an opposing alignment in order to offer it a chance to change its alignment to match yours. The prospective subject must be present for the entire casting process. Upon completion of the spell, the subject freely chooses whether it retains its original alignment or acquiesces to your offer and changes to your alignment. No duress, compulsion, or magical influence can force the subject to take advantage of the opportunity offered if it is unwilling to abandon its old alignment. This use of the spell does not work on outsiders or any creature incapable of changing its alignment naturally.

Though the spell description refers to evil acts, atonement can also be used on any creature that has performed acts against its alignment, whether those acts are evil, good, chaotic, or lawful.

Note: Normally, changing alignment is up to the player. This use of atonement simply offers a believable way for a character to change his or her alignment drastically, suddenly, and definitively.

Material Component
Burning incense.

Focus
In addition to your holy symbol or normal divine focus, you need a set of prayer beads (or other prayer device, such as a prayer wheel or prayer book) worth at least 500 gp.

XP Cost
When cast for the benefit of a creature whose guilt was the result of deliberate acts, the cost to you is 500 XP per casting (see above).

 

[griff_goodbeard]

The Santify the Wicked spell from the BoED makes the target good. That'd work.

 

[Artoomis]

Helm of Opposite Alignment
This metal hat looks like a typical helmet. When placed upon the head, however, its curse immediately takes effect (Will DC 15 negates). On a failed save, the alignment of the wearer is radically altered to an alignment as different as possible from the former alignment—good to evil, chaotic to lawful, neutral to some extreme commitment (LE, LG, CE, or CG). Alteration in alignment is mental as well as moral, and the individual changed by the magic thoroughly enjoys his new outlook. A character who succeeds on his save can continue to wear the helmet without suffering the effect of the curse, but if he takes it off and later puts it on again, another save is required. The curse only works once; that is, a character whose alignment has been changed cannot change it again by donning the helmet a second time.

Only a wish or a miracle can restore former alignment, and the affected individual does not make any attempt to return to the former alignment. (In fact, he views the prospect with horror and avoids it in any way possible.) If a character of a class with an alignment requirement is affected, an atonement spell is needed as well if the curse is to be obliterated. When a helm of opposite alignment has functioned once, it loses its magical properties.

Strong transmutation; CL 12th; Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be 12th level; Price 4,000 gp;Weight 3 lb.

Works for me! It takes a "1" on the Will save, but, it does give a way for this to have happened.

 

[Dross]

I hate value judgements in the SRD that make no sense.

Further, its setting specific, depending on whether being a Lich is "Unspeakably Evil" or not. In Eberron, there are lots of elves where this is false. In Scarred Lands, in several cases, there are good and neutral liches, so this passage in the SRD is worthless, IMO, its not the job of the SRD to inform on setting, but on rules.

There is no reason, by the rules, that becoming a Lich need be an unspeakably evil and irredeemable act. Further settings put out, including by WoTC have shown this is true.

There is my Lich rant.

In support: Baelnorns (sp?) are good elven liches in the Forgotten Realms.

However Frank is right, the DM needs to be happy with such a PC.

The SRD simply needed to add the word typically to cover itself.

 

[Jack Simth]

Works for me! It takes a "1" on the Will save, but, it does give a way for this to have happened.

Techncially, you can give up a will save.

Would work well for a Lich with a low Sense Motive, and a Hero with a really high Bluff... as well as that nifty ring that stops people from magically discerning your alignment....

 

[Artoomis]

Bottom line: It's not that hard to accomplish, if the DM is willing.

The mechanics might get interesting...