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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 4121919" data-attributes="member: 2525">People give lots of analogies about other spells and abilities which demonstrate in their minds something which is indirect in nature.If you argue by analogy you have to show that those analogies are actually similar in nature to the thing you are comparing it to.In this case, none of the analogies actually resemble the thing you are comparing it to.  All the analogies are actual independent nouns in themselves, independent things outside the spell itself.  A creature, a place, an object.  If all the analogies are fundamentally different than the issue you are comparing it to (Fast Healing) it's good evidence that your analogy is a bad one.  And I didn't like arguing by analogy when we have rules text available, but lots of other folks seemed to want to so I engaged in demonstrating why they were bad analogies.Damage reduction or incorporeality spells are in fact similar to a spell that has a fast healing effect.   They are not indirect independent things from the spell that grants them.If you turned yourself into a creature that also happened to have damage reduction, that would be an example of an indirect damage reduction effect.  Much like if you summoned a creature that can cast Vigor, that would be an indirect healing effect.  But if you cast a spell that gives you Damage Reduction, that is a direct Damage Reduction spell.  If there were a feat that said "If you cast a spell that increases your damage reduction, add +1 to the damage reduction you receive", then that feat would apply to the Damage Reduction spell.  It's quite similar to a spell that gives you Fast Healing.  Damage Reduction, Incorporeality, and Fast Healing are all part and parcel of something else.  They are not themselves independent intervening things.</blockquote>

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