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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kalendraf" data-source="post: 1913042" data-attributes="member: 3433">First, I'd like to appologize for high-jacking this thread on Summoning.  I had merely intended to point out that natural casting was really good for druids, going so far as to provide some examples.  Unfortunately it's now turned into a debate of sorts on how easy it is to spot a wildshaped caster.  Probably worthy of a thread by itself...There are other feats I can pose a similar question for.  If Weapon Specialization works exactly how you rule it, then why would every fighter not take this feat as his 4th level feat?  In my campaigns, unless a spell has a material component with a cost (examples are identify, raise dead, etc), the components are ignored.  So in this case Eschew Materials is essentially something all casters already have for the most part.  I wouldn't agree that it counts as Silent and Still spell.  A held or silenced druid can't cast, and they can still be heard and seen.  Don't confuse the use of camoflaging yourself amongst other creatures as equating to being silent and invisible.Yup.  No arguments there - that's how the feat was written.  But unless there's been some kind errata issued for it, I don't think we're really debating that.As the feat is written, I agree there are very few reasons for a druid not to take it.  Much like I see almost no reasons for a rogue not to take Improved Initiative or a Fighter not to take Weapon Focus & Weapon Specialization.  It would probably require some kind of special build of druid that requires 3 or 4 feats ASAP.  That might occur with certain PrC's or multiclass druids.   It's probably not common, possibly not very viable, but certainly possible.As I said, I think the feat is very strong, but I'm not the person who invented it.  WotC did that.  You seem to think that I'm somehow improving the feat above what is listed in the PHB/SRD, but I disagree.  I'm simply allowing it to be used by how the rules say it works.  The problem is there seems to be some debate or gray areas as to how obvious spellcasting is.  That's really what the debate has been focusing on.  Everyone here seems to be in agreement that Natural Casting is a very strong feat for a druid.Is it?  The druid has been spotted an attacked multiple times, sometimes coming quite close to dying in the process.  I think you've come to the conclusion that I'm somehow ruling that Natural Casting makes the caster silent and invisible and that is certainly not the case.You might be surprised, but it turns out that is pretty much how I have been ruling it.  What you've failed to understand is just how few opponents have Spellcraft in this campaign world!!!  In a bulk of the situations where the druid is wildshaped and manages to get the jump on the enemy, those foes have tended to be unintelligent creatures or humanoids that aren't familiar with casters.  When they have encountered more intelligent foes, the wildshaped druid has definitely been a primary target.I never said he could do it w/o fear of reprisal, or that he's just blasting things willy-nilly.  My example was just trying to show a situation where it can be extremely difficult for opponents to solve "Where's Waldo".</blockquote>

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