Augment Summoning ... how worthwhile ?

[Rashak Mani]

Doing a Druid w/ emphasis on spellcasting (not wildshaping)... and I'm wondering how worthwhile is the Augment Summoning (and pre-req Spell Focus (conj). Especially since the alternative would be to get Sudden Extend & Sudden Maximize.

Pros - Druids can Summon Spontaneous, Summon Nature list is good, +4 Str & + 4 Con = more HPs and Damage done

Cons - Spell Focus (Conj) is a total wasted feat, Summoning Creatures can be a hassle in combat, Sudden Maximize is very neat !

I'll be a 5th lvl human Druid btw...

So Augment Summoning or not ?

 

[smetzger]

Could you post the details on Sudden Extend & Sudden Maximize?

Also, you will probably get better responses in the Rules Forum.

The Summon Nature's Ally list does kick, especially once you start being able to summon huge elementals.

 

[Treebore]

As usual for WOTC, a pathetic attempt to balance feats. They should have just done a lesser and greater augment that stacked to get to the +4 bonuses, but no they just make you do a "throw away" and call it balancing.

As for the feats, does looking it at as +2 to hit and damage and +2 HP per HD help you see how effective it is?

 

[Kelleris]

I've found that it pretty much moves every summoned monster up one list in effectiveness (somewhat suprisingly). I'd take it, and sudden empower at 6th.

 

[spectre72]

My experience with my level 9 human druid is that the combination helps alot if you will be summoning.

It is a trade off, and the spell focus conjuration seems like a waste.

But extra hit points and a better chance to hit/damage makes even the 1st level version of the summon spell better.

If you don't like to summon then it would be a complete waste.

Scott

 

[Jdvn1]

At least with my Druid, I can't say that I've ever considered either of the two feats to be excessively handy. Sudden Maximize might be more useful anyway because you can break out a bunch of lower-level allies with the spell too.

Which sometimes comes in handy and sometimes doesn't, but the flexibility is nice regardless.

 

[fusangite]

If you are playing a druid, the feat is absolutely worthwhile. If you're playing a cleric who plans to take the Thaumaturgist prestige class at 7th level, the feat is worthwhile. Otherwise, don't bother.

So in your cast, get the feat. An extra two hit points per hit die, +2 to damage on each attack and +2 to hit in melee -- it's a great feat. I play a 5th level druid and really enjoy throwing augmented hippogriffs at my enemies. They materialize infront of the opponent, do a full round attack and then start soaking up damage -- that feat pays for itself in no time. Even if it effectively soaks up two feats instead of one.

 

[Kalendraf]

Doing a Druid w/ emphasis on spellcasting (not wildshaping)

You say you want to focus on spellcasting. In that case, your #1 feat should be Natural Casting. Even if you're not going to focus on wildshaping, this single feat allows a druid to be an incredibly effective caster.

Our druid rarely uses his wildshape for combat and instead uses it for scouting (flying above as a bird, turning into a fish to explore water areas, etc), as well as avoiding enemies. But it wouldn't work as well if he didn't have the natural casting to let him cast spells while he is wildshaped. He is the party's main nuker casting flame strikes, lightning storms left and right. In a pinch, he can pitch one of those blast spells for summoned creatures. But most of the time he just flies in and lays waste. While he's wildshaped, the enemy often has no idea where the spell even came from.

<BOOM>
Minion: "Boss, somebody hit us with a column of fire!"
Boss: "Target the caster!"
Minion: "Hmm. All we see is a bunch of birds flying around and some squirrels in those trees...no casters anywhere"
Boss: "Then start shooting them. All of them. One of them must be a shapeshifter."
<BOOM>
Dying minion: "Too late boss..."

The next set of feats I'd recommend after Natural Casting for a caster-focused druid is Spell Focus (Evocation) then Greater Spell Focus (Evocation). Many of the druids most powerful spells are evocation ones (Flame Strike, Call Lightning, etc), and if you're looking to make the most of them, raising the DC's will help there.

On the other hand, if you want to be a summoner (a different type of spellcasting druid), then the Augment Summoning is something you'll want. But if you want to be a more general spellcasting druid or a blaster-type, then stay away from it.

 

[Rashak Mani]

"Sudden" Feats are metamagic feats from the Complete Arcane. Instead of having "Empower" and memorizing spells with the level cost... with a "Sudden Extend" for example you can once per day extend one spell without level cost or preparing it before. Great for Wizards. Sudden Maximize has pre-req of a metamagic feat... which would could be Sudden Extend possibly.

Oh, I most certainly plan to get the Natural Casting.. but I think it has a pre-requisite of wildshape...so I can only get it after 5th lvl... so on my 6th lvl slot.

Due to background I will get the "Track" Feat... I didn't think losing a spellcasting level to get 1 Ranger Lvl was worth saving 1 feat slot.

1st lvl -> Track & Spell Focus (Conj)
3rd lvl -> Augment Summoning (+4 str and +4 con for summoned )

OR ?

1st lvl -> Track & Sudden Extend
3rd lvl -> Sudden Maximize (1 maximized spell p/ day)

I probably try to get the other feats later... but that means 12th lvl only to get them all. So many feats... so few slots !

So overall Druids cast a lot of summon spells or not ? Compared to "energy and damaging" spells at least.

(*While I'm at it... does anyone have the Summon Nature Allies Creature stats in a handy document or xls ?)

 

[Saeviomagy]

<BOOM>
Minion: "Boss, somebody hit us with a column of fire!"
Boss: "Target the caster!"

Minion: "We can't. The DM has ignored the rules and used what he thinks is an appropriate fill-in, which has severely advantaged a druid caster, who's probably in one of the animals around about. Despite the fact that we're all totally conversant with all forms of magic, this one breaking of the rules renders us unable to cope, because there are absolutely no counters available within the core ruleset!"

Boss: "Then start shooting them. All of them. One of them must be a shapeshifter."
<BOOM>
Dying minion: "Too late boss..."

The druid gets to use his hide and move silent rolls (boosted by improved dex and reduced size, no doubt). A successful bluff check vs a spellcraft check would also work to convince people you're just a critter (if the GM is feeling lenient).

Don't just say "oh, I guess natural spell not only removes a severe limitation on druids, but it also doubles as silent and still spell modified so they don't increase level".