Saeviomagy said:
See - if someone writes a little story about bending the rules, and accomplishing something that is obviously way too good (ie - there is not a possible way to distinguish the casting animal from the others), then I don't think it's snarky to point out that that is in fact what they've done.
Was it not obvious from the story that the foes were low-int humanoids?
Saeviomagy, I'll cut you some slack since you aren't familiar with my campaign world. In general, spellcasters are not common. Thus, people are not familiar with spellcasting, let alone how to recognize it.
As for detecting an animal-formed druid casting spells, I say it is a heckuva lot more difficult that you make it out to be. The voice of a wildshaped caster sounds like the animal he's assumed. The spell gestures now become wing flaps or claw motions that may be almost impossible to see from any further than a few feet away.
Here's some examples to demonstrate it:
A) Flock of birds, all squawking and hovering above a hundred feet up. At that height, it would take an extremely keen eye to detect any difference in their wing motions, probably in the DC40 range, and pretty much impossible to pinpoint which one of them made the extra caw-CAW-caw sound amongst them. Using magic would make this task much easier, but if the enemy on the ground has none, they pretty much have to just start picking off birds and hope they get lucky.
For increased difficulty, if the druid was a hummingbird, I'd say the differences in the wing motions caused during casting would be pretty much impossible to detect. In real life you'd need to video-tape it and slow it down. In a fantasy world, the equivalent would take magic.
B) Bunch of squirrels in trees. Ever been in a heavy forest before where there are tons of squirrels? I have. They make a variety of sounds ranging from chirps to screaches to warn other squirrels of the danger, and possibly to try to scare off intruders. With fairly dense foliage, if you are very still and focus your ears and eyes, you can eventually spot them (pretty much like taking a 10). But they continually move, often running up and down the backsides of limbs, so it can be difficult to pinpoint even one for more than a couple seconds before you lose track of them. Now let's suppose one of those squirrels is a shapeshifted druid. It might be possible to notice a slightly different sound coming from one of them, but not necessarily obvious unless you were at least somewhat with squirrel sounds (I'd estimate Knowledge Nature: DC 5). Even then, spotting him is still as difficult as with the other squirrels, and if you do see it, chances are it will be extremely difficult to detect any unusual head or claw motions it is making. They often sit and eat seeds or nuts (even while making danger sounds at you). Unless you're some kind of squirrel guru, determing if the front paw motion is due to it shelling a seed vs. casting a spell would be pretty much impossible.
So long as a druid takes a form that blends in well with the environment, detecting their spellcasting is extremely difficult without magical means.
Saeviomagy said:
Regardless of your form, spellcraft easily recognises spellcasting. After all, it has no problem detecting (say) a kraken mage, or a beholder mage, or a mage speaking french when you speak english.
Spellcraft could detect it, assuming you can see it and identify it as such. So I'd say you could use spellcraft to pick out a basically bipedal creature's casting. In this campaign world where magic is rare, feared and even persecuted, few people take time to study it, and spellcraft is a skill that few people or monsters have.
Saeviomagy said:
The language and gestures of magic are universal enough that one can pick them out with ease.
Within your own race, yes. Outside of it, definitely not.
Humanoid magic sounds would be along the lines of this: "Amono Kato Jalat Zu!" along with four fingers outstretched, hand up.
The equivalent spell in hawk sounds like "Screech-Shreek-Sccrree-Screek" with the wing tip lifted up slightly.
Sorry, but a spellcaster or someone who puts points in spellcraft doesn't automatically know every possible creatures variations to cast the same spell. Other humanoids can easily spot the humanoid caster as such, and other birds could probably identify the hawk as such, but there's no easy cross-over between broad species.
Caster sees an octopus moving it's tentacles. "I recognize that tentacle motion. See how he squeezes the 2nd, 3rd, 9th and 27th suction cup, then pulls up the other tentacle and then lets it drop down. That's obviously a detect magic spell." Yeah, right. Come back when you've got about 20 ranks in Knowledge (Octopi Arcane Casting).
Saeviomagy said:
Saying "it requires knowledge nature/detect magic/survival/speak with animals" to detect a spellcasting mage is like saying that it requires tongues and knowledge (dungeoneering) to detect a spellcasting aboleth.
Totally different case. An aboleth is creature known to have magical powers. If you manage to see one (tough as they usually use illusion to disguise themself) and it so much as gurgles or twitches, you'd have to assume it probably is casting a spell.
Mundane animals are just the opposite. A cat purs and scratches its ear, a dog barks and wags its tail, while a bird chips and flaps its wings. If you see those things happen, even in a fantasy world, you do not assume they are casting a spell. If it was the only living thing in view and a spell was cast, it would still be very hard to be sure that it was true the source of the spell w/o other methods of detection to back it up.
If that cat purs again and scratches its ear the exact same way a 2nd time and the same spell gets cast again, then there's a pretty darn good chance there's a connection. Given enough time, and few distractions, a shapeshifted druid casting spells will probably become apparent. But that may take several rounds, and by then it will probably be far too late to even matter. Amongst other creatures, all moving, it may be almost impossible.
Thanks for the input...
