Augment Summoning ... how worthwhile ?

[Teneb]

I'm the aforementioned druid in Kal's campaign. It sounds like you are debating between a blaster druid (like me) or a summoning druid. I'd say pick one of those and choose your feats after the fact. If you want to be a summoner, than absolutely take Augment Summoning. It works on all your summons, all the time. The Sudden Metamagic feats only work once per day, and personally at least I don't like that limitation as a summoner. As a blaster, however, its alright. However, I'd have to agree with Kalendraf the the Spell Focus and GSF feats are what you'd probably want to hone in on first, choosing Evocation. As stated earlier, Natural Spell is a must have.

I don't want to devolve into flaming or anything, and besides such a conversation would be more appropriate in Rules, but I completely disagree with your take on Natural Spell Saeviomagy. Your post comes off as needlessly snarky as well, in my opinion. Natural Spell doesn't double as Still and Silent Spell, however how is the Bad Guy supposed to know if that squirrel is chittering angrily or casting a flamestrike? There are certainly ways to determine if a wildshaped druid is about (detect magic, knowledge nature, ad nauseum), but I really don't think the druid needs to make any sort of a bluff, move silent, or whatever kind of skill role to "hide" his casting. However, YMMV.

 

[Rashak Mani]

I'm the aforementioned druid in Kal's campaign. It sounds like you are debating between a blaster druid (like me) or a summoning druid.

Your correct... in the end its a blaster vs summon druid discussion... but we've had almost no druids in our games and no 3.5 yet. I can't even start comparing... we haven't had "summoner" specialists ever in our games. Druid or otherwise.

How has your "blaster" druid been doing ?

 

[Herremann the Wise]

As usual for WOTC, a pathetic attempt to balance feats. They should have just done a lesser and greater augment that stacked to get to the +4 bonuses, but no they just make you do a "throw away" and call it balancing.

As for the feats, does looking it at as +2 to hit and damage and +2 HP per HD help you see how effective it is?

I think this comment is a little bit harsh as I don't consider the balancing pathetic. Are WOTC really that bad?

The augmented study of the conjurative school to get this feat makes sense to me. Admittedly, I have formed this view from playing a Wizard (and more particularly a Conjurer - see my signature if interested in the SH). For a Druid, the feat sequence is most probably a little bit much - although there is no doubt that the feat is particularly effective - most especially with the nasty elementals a Druid can conjure.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Rashak Mani]

I think this comment is a little bit harsh as I don't consider the balancing pathetic. Are WOTC really that bad?

The augmented study of the conjurative school to get this feat makes sense to me.

I'll defend Treebore on this... I just hate this "waste a feat to get something good" mentality... though its more common in Prestige Classes. They make you get a useless or near useless feat as "payment" for getting a PrC.

( Sorry for posting in General Discussions... if a moderator thinks its more appropiate to Rules forum... please change)

 

[Teneb]

Your correct... in the end its a blaster vs summon druid discussion... but we've had almost no druids in our games and no 3.5 yet. I can't even start comparing... we haven't had "summoner" specialists ever in our games. Druid or otherwise.

How has your "blaster" druid been doing ?

Well Rashak, I'm in a little bit of a special case I guess. In the Tainted World (Kal's homebrew) arcane magic is....wait for it.....tainted. As such, our group doesn't have any mages or sorcerers, because those folks tend to go stark raving mad. An offensive druid made sense to me. So far, he's working fabulously. I am without question the artillery of the group. I just hit 11th level, and lay down flamestrikes and lightning storms with wild abandon. I've got Natural Spell, Spell and Greater Spell Focus (Evocation); that coupled with a Amulet of Wisdom +3, my DCs are quite high and I'd say 80-90% of the time opponents can't make the save for half damage (which, I'm sure you'll agree, is a big deal).

I like the versatility of the druid as well. We recently fought some demons/devils (I forget). Anyway, they were basically immune to fire and lightning which are my bread and butter. I started pitching high level spells and summoning dire lions and the like to fight them. They didn't do crazy amounts of damage, but they soaked damage that would have otherwise gone to our party's tanks, and also provided flanking. In a pinch (and this is absolutely last ditch for me) I can wildshape and take on baddies as a bear or some other appropriate critter myself. I much prefer flying 100 feet over the battlefield and dropping elemental damage however.

Bottom line: both a blaster and a summoner druid would be fun to play. If you don't have a wizard, as is the case with my party, blaster would probably be a good idea. If there's someone else in the party who takes up the artillery role, summoner wouldn't be bad. There are a lot of great animals on those Summon Nature's Allies lists, and as someone mentioned above, giving every one of them +2 hp/HD and +2 attack and damage with Augment Summoning is certainly nothing to sneeze at. Good luck with it! I'd never played a druid before this, and I've found that I really enjoy the class.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Teneb, so your Druid gets away from the "tainted" business by asking mother nature for spell power ? Thanks for the input...

Apparently there is already an Arcane spellcaster... and 5 other PCs. Its a big group for what we are used to. It doesn't mean I can't be "blaster" once in a while... its just that if I chose Augmenting that I won't have my feats as focused on blasting.

In retrospect... I've just recently stopped playing a major 12-13th level Sorceror / Elemental Savant. I should be tired of "blasting"... but one never tires of big blasts spells ! I do want input from "summoners" to know how things work.

 

[Victim]

Druids also get a number of conjuration attack spells, especially in supplements. So the gap between summoning druid and blasting druid isn't very wide.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Druids also get a number of conjuration attack spells, especially in supplements. So the gap between summoning druid and blasting druid isn't very wide.

Conjuration attack spells ?

 

[rowport]

For your intentions, the Augment Summoning tree is a great answer. I will not belabor it, since that is already happening above. But, if you really want the Track feat anyway, I will make a pitch for adding a Ranger level... (I get the impression that you are creating a CR5 character to start, otherwise, this will make no sense..!) If you go Ranger1, then straight Druid, you will give up a caster level- but in exchange, you will effectively get a 'free' feat (which might be one of the 'blaster' feats...) and loads of skill points- WAY more than if you went straight Druid. Your BAB will be one better, and HD the same. If you want to sacrifice another level later on, of course, you could pick up a Combat Style, to boot.

Just for the extra skill points alone, that is worth a serious look, but with the BAB improvement and extra feat it is a no-brainer, IMO.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Augment Summoning is great, particularly if your party is relatively low on melee combat potential or healing power. (The latter because the critters soak hits, sparing your fighters.) Spell Focus (Conjuration) has one slight benefit, in that it applies to the save on cure spells - useful against undead. That's really all you get for it, though my DM lets it give a bonus to crafting items of that school. Don't forget to apply the bonuses from Augment Summoning to the various special attacks and abilities of summoned critters (grapple check, whirlwind DC, poison DC, etc.)

My druid actually put off Natural Spell until level 9 - was planning to take it at 6, but the need for a healing wand was just too great and I couldn't conceive of the character looking for a magic shop. Important things to consider when playing a summoner is your ability to communicate with the critters. Casting Speak with Animals right before combat can be useful (or having a very good Handle Animal check), as can taking ranks in the elemental languages.

Combine Augment Summoning with Animal Growth and maybe Bull's Strength and you have constrictor snakes that can crush nearly anything, or rhinos that do Massive Damage Threshold on every charge.