August RPG Book Club: Classic Monsters Revisted

[Crothian]

The RPG Book enters its third month. We started with the caveman game Og! and then we did the Pirates Guide to Freeport. Both are excellent books and people are free to continue those discussion.

This month we are moving to the home of d20 and going to one of the more popular companies Piazo. Their book Classic Monsters Revisited is up for a pair of ENnies and is one of those rare books all D&D fans can enjoy. It takes many of the classic monsters like goblins and bugbears and gives them a welcomed new twist. The core of the creatures are the same but the added details and some of the cool little twists the monsters have is near genius. I've been using the book and slowly introducing the monsters to the campaign and it has really added something positive and fun to our game.

The purpose of these threads is to take one RPG book a month and highlight it. It is to promote discussion and make people a little more aware of some of the books out there.

Have you had a chance to use it in your game? How have the changes played out for your group?

Any changes in the book you found to be especially great and inspired? Anything they did with the monsters that just doesn't work for you?

Using the new take on monsters can really alter some classic modules. Is there a module that you really like that you think the new versions of the monsters could improve and make the module a bit different?

 

[Psion]

Hrm. It's backordered, and I don't have it.

I was interested in what folks had to say about it.

 

[Crothian]

That's bad luck. Hopefully plenty of stores still have them so people can get it that want to.

 

[demiurge1138]

I got this book a few months ago, and I have to say I really like it. Being a subscriber to the Pathfinder line, I was already aware of some of the major flavor-changes (goblins and ogres), but I was quite pleasantly surprised by the bugbears. The idea of bugbears as stealthy, fear-inspiring serial killers delighted me immensely, as did the various bugbear variants that build on that trope.

 

[Rechan]

Any changes in the book you found to be especially great and inspired?

The thing I loved the most was the "Variant monster" part. It was full of gold, and great ideas for unique entities (particularly the bugbear).

The "Nobilization" of the Troll was fairly odd, but interesting. The section came across like the writer admired them, similarly to how a nature lover would write about lions or wolves. It definitely made them seem... more human? It gave trolls a "face" beyond "Nasty regenerating giant monster". Although it almost came across that trolls are Neanderthals, with their bestial nature and culture (which is fine).

I liked the kobold section. I always love kobolds, but a few aspects seemed utterly new, like how kobolds just love to work. That really got my brain popping with something that I could use for a campaign.

The Ogre and Minotaur sections were good; I think I enjoyed reading the Minotaur section the most. Bugbears were creepy.

Anything they did with the monsters that just doesn't work for you?

Despite the day to day details and culture that were different, in the actual application that most players will see, there were too many similarities. "They like to invade en masse, destroy, slaughter, and take slaves" described gnolls, hobgoblins, and orcs. Ogres and Minotaur take slaves/captives too. I especially had real trouble differentiating Orcs from Hobgoblins - they are set up the same way "They come, they demolish anything in their path, and ... that's about it". It felt very uninspiring from an adventure/plot perspective.

Also, the explanation as to why Hobgoblins seem to never get anywhere despite their constant desire for discipline and organization was interesting (They're so ruthless to get ahead that they collectively shoot themselves in the foot) is interesting, but just isn't good enough, to me. It's a real stretch, and seems to be just a dismissive "Eh, they just in-fight too much". That's just not the characteristic you get from the heavy Lawful, authoritarian nature of Hobbos.

The Bugbear section, while it was creepy and well done, didn't do it for me as far as bugbears are concerned. The overtly sadist nature, the bloodlust for wanton slaughter, just not my taste. But that's not a flaw of the book, merely my pre-conceived preferences for the Bugbear.

The minotaur "Large Double Crossbow" is a little on the silly side.

To be honest I didn't read the goblin and lizardfolk section. The former because I've read Burnt Offerings, and just didn't want to re-read the same stuff at the time, and the Lizardfolk I got the jive for and it didn't really pique me. However, I will be going back to it soonish for inspiration.

Also, I had a huge problem actually getting the book. I pre-ordered it from Amazon, but apparently it didn't get in from the distributors or warehouses or something; it took a month and a half past street date for me to get it.

My biggest disappointment? It was short. I wanted more!


In total, it was a nice read, but not something that I felt I could take a lot from and use. In some places it was disappointing.

However, if Paizo would make some more, focusing on other monster groups (Fey, aberrations, monstrous humanoids (Harpies, Gargoyles, and Grimlocks, I'm looking at you)), I'd buy it definitely.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I'd say that due to the minimal amount of game mechanics in the book, that it's useful for any system, not merely any edition of D&D. It's not like fantasy gurps/hero/rolemaster/harp/warhammer/etc... couldn't benefit from more variety in their generic fantasy diet.

My biggest disappointment in the book is that it didn't go far enough and seemed to rely on the reader having read the first pathfinder series for more game mecahnics.

I thought that the changes to the goblin and ogre were great and vastly new takes and while some of the other races did indeed continue that trend, such as the bugbears, I found some of them to be m'eh, like the lizardmen.

 

[Erik Mona]

However, if Paizo would make some more, focusing on other monster groups (Fey, aberrations, monstrous humanoids (Harpies, Gargoyles, and Grimlocks, I'm looking at you)), I'd buy it definitely.

We just placed "Dragons Revisited" on the schedule for early next year, and will probably do at least one more that year, assuming sales remain strong.

Classic Monsters Revisited is our fastest seller to date, and we sold out completely in three days. We haven't been able to reprint the book yet, so if you're having trouble finding it at you LGS I suggest stopping by Barnes & Noble. They picked up a huge number of the book, and I'm still seeing on some local B&N shelves.

I would love to do more of these books, especially once we can get to stuff like fey and undead, where there's a nice mixture of need for compelling details, need for unique takes, and enough variety to make it an interesting read.

The Monsters Revisited series will always be very, very light on crunch and useful for players of any fantasy RPG system.

I'm thrilled you guys chose this one, and I'm excited to hear everyone's comments!

--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC

 

[hewligan]

I have it. I have read most of it, and here are my thoughts:

The goblins are awesome. Now, I already knew this because I have been using them since the changes in Rise of the Runelords, and this book basically collates and reprints that book. THIS is how goblins are going to be in my games from now on. Crazy little sods!

Kobolds - very well done as well. I always had a soft spot for kobolds, and I am desperate to run Death of the Kobold King and Revenge of the Kobold King, both of which I have sitting ready for players. The section in CM:R will just add to my existing love.

Ogres - pretty messed up. This is what happens when you let the inspired (and disturbed) Nicolas Logue loose on a monster. He turns them into ... well ... hillbilly perverts.

Minotaur - not my favourite. I never liked them as a monster in the first place. I never liked the Greek legend that gave spawn to them. As such, it almost didn't matter what the author did here, I would be hard pushed to like it. It is a good attempt, but not my cup of tea.

Bugbear - this is the second best revisit, behind the goblins. Bugbears are spooky now. Seriously spooky. I could imagine using a single bugbear now to run an entire low level adventure around, with farmers getting frightened, going into the fields at night with forks and lanterns, turning on one another, brutality, fear, doubt ... and all the while the bugbear is THRIVING on it.

Hobgoblin - not a bad attempt, but lets be honest, these were only ever created in the original game to be slightly stronger orcs that weren't as chaotic. I like the work done here, but in my game I would play them darker, colder, more ruthless, and I sure as heck would let them win and rule over some lesser races.

Troll and Lizardmen I have not read fully yet.

What I would like to see in the next one (well, the next standard one, because of course the next few are likely to be themed):

1) Revisit the drow. Actually, Paizo appear to be doing this, taking them back a bit to original roots with them being worshippers of multiple demon lords, rather than all being female run spider worshippers.

2) Mind flayers (probably not open content, though!)

3) Duergar. These things are just ignored. I want a truely evil, original (perhaps tragic) take on them.

4) Giants. Why are they not ruling the earth?

 

[Rechan]

We just placed "Dragons Revisited" on the schedule for early next year, and will probably do at least one more that year, assuming sales remain strong.

...

I would love to do more of these books, especially once we can get to stuff like fey and undead, where there's a nice mixture of need for compelling details, need for unique takes, and enough variety to make it an interesting read.

Glad to hear this.

Although (and this is a little off topic), that an undead book is both Needed, and yet not needed. Because there are so many undead out there, and giving them a new flavor would be so nice. However, there are too many undead books out there. Aside from Dragons, I expect they have the most books dedicated to them. So I think some other monster group ought to get some love first.

 

[Crothian]

I'm thrilled you guys chose this one, and I'm excited to hear everyone's comments!

You are the first publisher to participate in one of these threads, thanks for that. Classic Monsters Revisited was one of the books I got for the ENnies that really knocked my socks off. I'm very happy to see it has been a success for you guys and that you are doing more books in the series.