August RPG Book Club: Classic Monsters Revisted
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Gailbraithe
First Post
I really enjoyed Classic Monsters Revisted, and I hope that paizo does many more books like this. Over on the paizo boards some of us have been agitating for a overhaul for the undead creation rules (we'd like it to be like the construct and magic item creation processes, with minimum caster levels and spell requirements, and not spell (Create Undead, etc.) based) for Pathfinder, and we'd like to see a Classic Undead Revisited that patched the crunch and gave us some of that lovely paizo flavor for the monsters.
But that's a different topic. This thread is about Classic Monster Revisted, so I'll actually talk about that. The book is full of great art that quickly establishes the nature of these creatures, and provides rich details into the culture and behavior of the most common foes in D&D that few other books can match. While there are a few low points, the book manages to successfully re-invent and re-invigorate many of these classic (and time-worn) creatures and breathes new life into them -- the sort of life that a dozen modified statblocks can't hope to achieve.
Specific high-points include:
But that's a different topic. This thread is about Classic Monster Revisted, so I'll actually talk about that. The book is full of great art that quickly establishes the nature of these creatures, and provides rich details into the culture and behavior of the most common foes in D&D that few other books can match. While there are a few low points, the book manages to successfully re-invent and re-invigorate many of these classic (and time-worn) creatures and breathes new life into them -- the sort of life that a dozen modified statblocks can't hope to achieve.
Specific high-points include:
- A dash of Brian Froud's humorous take on goblins (seen in the movie Labyrinth) brings much needed humor to the tired old tiny stalwart, without sacrificing any of the menace or terror the word "goblins" should evoke.
- The bugbear has finally been distinguished from the rest of the humanoids as the lone stalker, the serial killer, a nice chilling take on the creature.
- A new origin for the minotaur reconnects them to their mythic roots while justifying them as a race.
- The gnoll is finally fleshed out and given a niche of their own, which conveniently gives DM's an excuse to have them pop most anywhere another humanoid tribe lives to give some variety.
- Trolls get the short-shaft, suffering from both a boring take, and worse, bad art that makes them look too much like shambling mounds.
- The hobgoblins lack something, and remain as they always have, weak sisters amongst the humanoids.
kensanata
Explorer
Lizardfolk
Let me talk about the Lizardfolk section for a bit: I'm planning to use some lizardfolk in my next campaign set in Dangerous Jungle of Lenap in the Wilderlands of High Fantasy. I was inspired by the giant wasp riding Dark Talon lizards from Monster Manual IV and was looking for some more background. That's when I turned to the book we're discussing.
I really liked the intro art – a lizardfolk village behind a lake with wooden catwalks leading up to it. We see reeds, birds, smoke, lantern light, and the orange brown of dusk. And the text says that lizardfolk have "an extensive oral tradition" with "rumbling epic poems". I really liked that part. And I liked how the "wellbeing of the next generation" is very important to all lizardfolk. That was a nice take. And it fit so nice with the ecological constraints: They are diurnal creatures and spend nights "holed up in easily defensible positions."
Clearly I will be having two lizardfolk tribes. One of them peaceful, the other taken over by greed. But even when talking about greed, the lizards will be articulate storytellers, so I'm hoping to add some non-combat depths to encounters. Their positive sides mentioned in the text will also allow me to add more flavor ("fierce and proud, loyal and sober, and if they are quick to anger they are also quick to forgive").
I like the backstory of loss – always slow in comparison to mammals, they retreat further and further into the swamps. This could lead to a Heart of Darkness situation; another adventure idea. Even without such a dark touch, "a culture in decline, a reclusive race of staunch traditionalists uninterested in the fast-moving pace of human society" can provide a nice backdrop against the constant warring between other cultures. Here in the swamps, none but the lizardfolk rule, and they are not interested in the fickle nature of man.
I also liked some elements that are easy to add to a game and still show how alien they are: Their cannibalism ("meat is meat, and squeamishness is a quality better left for the softer races" -- hah!), the combination of trial by (non-lethal) combat and their communist nature ("anything you can't keep by force was never yours to begin with"), or a specific element of their shaman cult ("curing diseases by transferring them to animals which can then be ritualistically slaughtered").
As for editing, I felt that there was potential for tightening up the text a bit. The eggs, the care for them, the defensive value of their settlements, it all comes up two or three times. I would have loved an illustration showing lizardfolk and dinosaurs or lizardfolk and nagas instead.
So all in all, I've found the lizardfolk chapter to be very inspiring for my own game.
Let me talk about the Lizardfolk section for a bit: I'm planning to use some lizardfolk in my next campaign set in Dangerous Jungle of Lenap in the Wilderlands of High Fantasy. I was inspired by the giant wasp riding Dark Talon lizards from Monster Manual IV and was looking for some more background. That's when I turned to the book we're discussing.
I really liked the intro art – a lizardfolk village behind a lake with wooden catwalks leading up to it. We see reeds, birds, smoke, lantern light, and the orange brown of dusk. And the text says that lizardfolk have "an extensive oral tradition" with "rumbling epic poems". I really liked that part. And I liked how the "wellbeing of the next generation" is very important to all lizardfolk. That was a nice take. And it fit so nice with the ecological constraints: They are diurnal creatures and spend nights "holed up in easily defensible positions."
Clearly I will be having two lizardfolk tribes. One of them peaceful, the other taken over by greed. But even when talking about greed, the lizards will be articulate storytellers, so I'm hoping to add some non-combat depths to encounters. Their positive sides mentioned in the text will also allow me to add more flavor ("fierce and proud, loyal and sober, and if they are quick to anger they are also quick to forgive").
I like the backstory of loss – always slow in comparison to mammals, they retreat further and further into the swamps. This could lead to a Heart of Darkness situation; another adventure idea. Even without such a dark touch, "a culture in decline, a reclusive race of staunch traditionalists uninterested in the fast-moving pace of human society" can provide a nice backdrop against the constant warring between other cultures. Here in the swamps, none but the lizardfolk rule, and they are not interested in the fickle nature of man.
I also liked some elements that are easy to add to a game and still show how alien they are: Their cannibalism ("meat is meat, and squeamishness is a quality better left for the softer races" -- hah!), the combination of trial by (non-lethal) combat and their communist nature ("anything you can't keep by force was never yours to begin with"), or a specific element of their shaman cult ("curing diseases by transferring them to animals which can then be ritualistically slaughtered").
As for editing, I felt that there was potential for tightening up the text a bit. The eggs, the care for them, the defensive value of their settlements, it all comes up two or three times. I would have loved an illustration showing lizardfolk and dinosaurs or lizardfolk and nagas instead.
So all in all, I've found the lizardfolk chapter to be very inspiring for my own game.
Angellis_ater
First Post
I personally enjoyed how the Bugbears were finally given real depth and even allowing me to spin stories around them. While I've personally refitted the goblins and hobgoblins into my own (somewhat twisted) revisitings, the Bugbears were one race I couldn't come up with ideas for.
The same goes for Ogres who previously didn't feature in my games (to me, they were giants, but... dumb? - does that a race make?) but now, with their deliciously twisted descriptions, they have a given place. Also makes much more sense of the Half-Ogre race.
The Orcs didn't quite impress me and neither did the Minotaurs (but that has more to do with a long ingrained dislike for the minotaurs as a race/monster), but the rest were top notch that sparked ideas. I liked seeing different aspects of family life being portrayed, from the ruthless gnolls to the caring lizardmen.
The same goes for Ogres who previously didn't feature in my games (to me, they were giants, but... dumb? - does that a race make?) but now, with their deliciously twisted descriptions, they have a given place. Also makes much more sense of the Half-Ogre race.
The Orcs didn't quite impress me and neither did the Minotaurs (but that has more to do with a long ingrained dislike for the minotaurs as a race/monster), but the rest were top notch that sparked ideas. I liked seeing different aspects of family life being portrayed, from the ruthless gnolls to the caring lizardmen.
delericho
Legend
This is a great book.
Alas, not yet.
I really liked the Bugbears, Goblins, Kobolds and Ogres. Perhaps unsurprisingly, since three of these four are the monsters that Paizo have done the most work with (thanks to the first chapters of the "Rise of the Runelords" AP and the "Crown of the Kobold King" module).
While they weren't bad, I felt the Lizardfolk and Hobgoblin entries weren't as strong as the rest. Also, I find the Orc entry to be unmemorable.
Anything that features more than one of these races. Actually, I could see some play in adapting "The Sunless Citadel" - expand the role of the warring Goblin and Kobold clans, adjust the dungeon so that the PCs are almost certain to run into the kobolds first, and change the hook so that the Goblins have raided the village, but the villagers don't make the distinction...
Alas, not yet.
I really liked the Bugbears, Goblins, Kobolds and Ogres. Perhaps unsurprisingly, since three of these four are the monsters that Paizo have done the most work with (thanks to the first chapters of the "Rise of the Runelords" AP and the "Crown of the Kobold King" module).
While they weren't bad, I felt the Lizardfolk and Hobgoblin entries weren't as strong as the rest. Also, I find the Orc entry to be unmemorable.
Anything that features more than one of these races. Actually, I could see some play in adapting "The Sunless Citadel" - expand the role of the warring Goblin and Kobold clans, adjust the dungeon so that the PCs are almost certain to run into the kobolds first, and change the hook so that the Goblins have raided the village, but the villagers don't make the distinction...
Angellis_ater
First Post
And it was very well deserved!
Voadam
Legend
I was in a Barnes and Noble on Friday killing time after chaperoning my son's preschool field trip and waiting for their nap time and the rest of his school day to finish before picking him up when I saw this on the RPG shelf.
There was WotC 4e stuff, WotC 3e stuff, Some WotC Star Wars Saga stuff, a copy of Exalted 2e, a copy of Battlestar Galactica RPG, and two copies of this. I spent most of my time in the RPG section flipping through this.
I like the capering ogres, they were fun in the same way the goblins from Paizo's website previews are.
There was WotC 4e stuff, WotC 3e stuff, Some WotC Star Wars Saga stuff, a copy of Exalted 2e, a copy of Battlestar Galactica RPG, and two copies of this. I spent most of my time in the RPG section flipping through this.
I like the capering ogres, they were fun in the same way the goblins from Paizo's website previews are.
JediSoth
Voice Over Artist & Author
I read through most of this today and I really liked the new flavor for goblins and gnolls. The way the goblins are described really reminded me of the Covenant Grunts in Halo. I can see having a lot of fun running them in my next campaign.
The lizardfolk were described as pretty much the way I've always run them: a neutral society who only wants to be left alone.
I liked the bugbears new fluff but I'll probably keep my take on hobgoblins and orcs. The kobold, minotaur (and to be honest, I kind of fell in love with Dragonlance's sea-faring minotaurs) and ogre fluff was pretty good, but since I expect my next campaign to be fully AE, I probably won't use it. I haven't finished reading the troll section yet.
Like others, I'd like to other books of this type. Especially if you included two new monsters, like the tentacled brain-eating psionicists or the ocular tyrants.
(OK, I'm being a little facetious there, but it's too bad you couldn't include those).
The lizardfolk were described as pretty much the way I've always run them: a neutral society who only wants to be left alone.
I liked the bugbears new fluff but I'll probably keep my take on hobgoblins and orcs. The kobold, minotaur (and to be honest, I kind of fell in love with Dragonlance's sea-faring minotaurs) and ogre fluff was pretty good, but since I expect my next campaign to be fully AE, I probably won't use it. I haven't finished reading the troll section yet.
Like others, I'd like to other books of this type. Especially if you included two new monsters, like the tentacled brain-eating psionicists or the ocular tyrants.
(OK, I'm being a little facetious there, but it's too bad you couldn't include those).Similar Threads
