Auras and condition denial

[OchreJelly]

If a creature has an active aura and is made helpless or unconscious, does the aura still work? Example: "start of creatures turn etc.... the eye of flame uses one random eye ray power". It doesn't say "makes an eye ray attack" which would have been more clear for me. Thoughts?

 

[sfedi]

Common sense.

As default I would use:
"no, the aura no longer applies if you are unconscious or helpless"

 

[Mouseferatu]

Common sense.

As default I would use:
"no, the aura no longer applies if you are unconscious or helpless"

The problem is, "common sense" differs by creature.

If it's an aura of fire from a creature that's constantly flickering with flame, being unconscious or helpless shouldn't make it go away. Similarly, if it's an aura of fear or psychic damage to an aberrant creature's alien nature.

OTOH, if it's an aura that comes from a creature's attacks or concentration--like the beholder--than common sense suggests it wouldn't work.

So I don't think a "default" option actually works if you're going with common sense; at least in my mind, it's too situation-specific.

 

[chitzk0i]

Doesn't the DMG recommend treating as dead almost all monsters reduced to zero? Aside from that, I'd probably just say the aura stops for simplicity. Besides, once the PCs see an unconscious creature with an aura still going, they'd probably coup de grace it.

 

[OchreJelly]

The rules on auras specifically say the aura shuts off when the creature dies (reduced to zero), but there's no provision to account for action denial (other than the text of stun itself). Often auras have no action - or are action dependent on the creature entering / starting in their space so it shouldn't be effected by a stun for example.

As for the common sense issue, it's the whole reason I asked actually because when this came up in game everyone had a different idea of what made the most sense. As mouse says, it differs by creature. Would a stench aura go away if the smelly critter was knocked out? Likewise I could see an argument for something with as many eyes as a beholder still be able to blast away even if it was reeling from a stun.

All I can definitely say about auras is that it takes a minor action to activate or turn off. there is no action to sustain them, and they go away when the creature dies.

 

[Camelot]

It doesn't depend on the creature; it depends on the game. If you want to threaten your PCs as much as possible, maybe because this is a boss encounter or they've been cruising through the previous encounters, then you want to keep the aura on. If you want to add suspense and drama to the game, make them think the creature's dead by having the aura deactivate, but then turn it back on the next round or a few rounds in when they've let down their guard.

That's the openended response. Personally, I would keep the aura activated. Most auras make sense to stay on; the fire or stench wouldn't shut off with a mere stun. By extension, the beholder may not be able to concentrate for an attack, but it is still randomly firing eye rays around the room as a reflex, and a PC is bound to be hit eventually. However, go with what you think makes the game more fun.

 

[sfedi]

Mouseferatu, you said exactly what I meant.

Thanks

 

[Jhaelen]

OTOH, if it's an aura that comes from a creature's attacks or concentration--like the beholder--than common sense suggests it wouldn't work.

Well, I'd argue, modelling the beholder's ability as an aura was a mistake in this case. If it isn't an automatic effect, then why is it an aura?

Generally, I'd assume something that required concentration would be an ability with sustain <action type>. If it required an attack it should have a trigger and be a kind of opportunity action.

 

[OchreJelly]

Well, I'd argue, modelling the beholder's ability as an aura was a mistake in this case. If it isn't an automatic effect, then why is it an aura?

Generally, I'd assume something that required concentration would be an ability with sustain <action type>. If it required an attack it should have a trigger and be a kind of opportunity action.

Yeah I guess I'm only having issues with the beholder aura. As I've thought about it, I would probably have written the beholder entry to say something like "as a free action..." that way the aura language gets codified with the action intent and works better with the other systems. Anyway, I know I'm probably over-thinking it. It is, however, one of the few rules clarity discussions we've had at the table in 4E.

 

[the Jester]

Yeah I guess I'm only having issues with the beholder aura. As I've thought about it, I would probably have written the beholder entry to say something like "as a free action..." that way the aura language gets codified with the action intent and works better with the other systems.

But auras trump dazed, while free actions don't.