Autofire in Deadlands and Dragonstar

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

For reasons unknown to myself, I looked at six Spycraft reviews at RPG.net.

One reviewer said they preferred the autofire rules in D20 Deadlands and Dragonstar to Spycraft. Does anyone have these books, and could you describe how they do autofire?

 

[one-end]

I do not have the Dragonstar book in front of me. However, if my memory serves me correctly it works basically this way. When firing a weapon with full-auto capability you make a roll to hit. For every 5 AC you hit above the targets AC you get another hit.

That make sense?

 

[Aaron2]

One reviewer said they preferred the autofire rules in D20 Deadlands and Dragonstar to Spycraft. Does anyone have these books, and could you describe how they do autofire?

The Spycraft autofire rules are kinda wonky. The Dragonstar ones are also since you not only need to roll to hit at -4 but the targets gets an easy Reflex save to dodge the bullet.

For grins, I made a table of the autofire rules for most of the games I have. I don't have Deadlands so I don't know how they work. For me, finding the perfect autofire rules is a (thusfar) life-long obsession.

http://www.freewebs.com/hedgehobbit/Autofire.html


Aaron

 

[one-end]

Hey Aaron2,

You should add the rules from Grim Tales on that chart. They are pretty good rules that I have been considering making the way to run Autofire and Burst fire in my campaign. Has rule for Suppression fire too.

 

[Victim]

The GT rules are almost the same as the Spycraft ones, with the exception of Suppression, IIRC. Of course, a number of other games had similar entries as well, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I don't see the Dragonstar autofire as being that bad. If it uses a minimum of 5 bursts at 3 bullets per burst, the DC will always be at least the same as d20 Modern. While the character needs to make an additional attack roll, the area affected is much bigger as well.

I think some of the GT/Spycraft rules are funny. Let's say you have the classic baddie using some hostage as cover situation. Now the villain is harder to hit, and shots that miss by more than the amount of cover hit the hostage. The solution for the hero is to make a WIDE BURST because the attack bonus makes him more likely to hit the enemy instead of the hostage (unless his attack bonus sucks relative to the target's defense).

HERO rules for autofire: Most weapons can make one attack, or use Rapid Fire to make more attacks at increasing penalties. An autofire weapon will generate additional hits for each 2 points over the required attack roll, up to the maximum of the weapon. Autofire weapons can also use Suppressive Fire, which creates a cone defined by the user with a number of "hex lines" through the cone determined by the autofire rating of the weapon. You get an attack at a minor penalty at anyone crossing one of the lines.

 

[Aaron2]

You should add the rules from Grim Tales on that chart. They are pretty good rules that I have been considering making the way to run Autofire and Burst fire in my campaign. Has rule for Suppression fire too.

I would if I had them.

I should add the Hero rules since they are similar in concept to Spycraft. I originally just started the list to keep track of which set of d20 rules used which set of autofire rules. I only added the GURPS line because I liked the way they did it. From what I've heard, GURPS 4e uses a "for each X over the target number a round hits" system where X is the weapon's recoil value. This is a nice variation and would add another stat to help differenciate weapons (a problem, IMO, with d20M) or be a simple way to give bonuses to bipids and tripods.

The rules from Twilight 2000 (2.2) were decent but there was too much calculations. You'd multiple the recoil number by the number of round then subtract that from your Strength then subtract the remaining number (if greater then 0) from your chance to hit then divide your chance to hit by 2 or 4 depending on range. All this to get a number that, in all likelyhood, is a 1. Then you roll 1d20 per round looking for ones.

Aaron (could talk all day about autofire rules)

 

[trancejeremy]

Oooh, that was my review.

Basically, when someone fires a burst at someone, instead of having any real fancy complicated rules, the number of bullets hits depend on the attack roll. If you just make the attack roll, then 1 hit, if you beat it by 5, then 2, if you beat it by 10, then all 3. And so on. (most guns only fire a 3 round burst, but some 5 or more, so it depends on that))

I like this because it represents how the first bullet is usually the most accurate, and the further ones in the burst usually start to deviate more. And it's pretty easy.

The suppressive fire rules I also like. Basically, you can spray an area with bullets (minimum of 5 bursts), and the attack roll (minus 4) is applied to anyone in the area. Then anyone in the area that could have been hit by the attack roll makes a reflex save vs. the number of bullets used. Usually a DC of 15 (since that is the minimum rounds firde for suppressive fire) , but higher for more bullets. Machine guns, which are meant for suppressive fire, usually have 5 rounds per burst, so the minimum save DC is 25.

Also, easier for me to remember.

 

[Aaron2]

I like this because it represents how the first bullet is usually the most accurate, and the further ones in the burst usually start to deviate more. And it's pretty easy.

I do like the Spycraft rules for one thing. At least they give you the option of either firing more rounds to increase your damage (either through more dice or bonus damage) or they let you fire more rounds for a greater chance to hit. Most rules only do one or the other.


Aaron