Autofire question

[Dareoon Dalandrove]

hahaha no it's not a challenge...er well I guess it is. I tried three times to get an account on the boards but never recieved a password. All three names are taken now though. I would like the offical ruling that's all.

 

[takyris]

Heh. I'd like the official ruling too, but I never made an account at WotC. I don't have time to do a ton of messageboard browsing, so ENWorld is pretty much my one-stop shop. If Mistwell's got time for it, that would be cool, though.

I can really see both sides of this argument. With a finite number of bullets, I can see the argument that a Reflex save lets you avoid all of them -- but most Reflex saves result in half damage, not no damage. There are SOME that are for no damage -- some traps, and Blade Barrier, offhand -- but not a ton.

My first read made me think that it was "Reflex save avoids", which means none. I look forward to seeing how it ends up.

-Tacky

 

[Dareoon Dalandrove]

Any news? I thought of another thing also. what about evasion. the people that take that would be loosing out

 

[Pagan priest]

Any news? I thought of another thing also. what about evasion. the people that take that would be loosing out

With evasion, a hero can dodge the schrapnel from a hand grenade. What more do you want?

 

[takyris]

I think he means that if a reflex save lets you totally avoid Autofire, then people with Evasion don't have a special advantage there.

Dar, like I said -- no WotC account for me, and I don't use those boards. So no news from me. Sorry.

-Tacky

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I have an account there, and use the boards occasionally.

I have found no thread about that - but for me the wording's pretty obvious: make a save or take damage, not make a save for half damage.

 

[jeffhartsell]

I'm just picky.

"... make a Reflex save (DC 15) or take the weapon’s damage."

You can make the following claim:
If you make the save, then you don't take the weapon's *full* damage

But you cannot assume:
If you make the save, then you don't take *half* the weapon's damage

I'm just being a picky rules laywer since if you take half damage you techincally did not take the weapon's damage; you took half the weapon's damage.

 

[Dareoon Dalandrove]

Ahh but since there is no errata how can you be sure that the word "half" was accidentialy left out. You also know that all other instences where you would make a reflex save against a damaging result you would take half damage.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

But you cannot assume:
If you make the save, then you don't take *half* the weapon's damage

Of course I can, and it's the only thing you possibly can assume, with the wording "make a save OR take damage". For me, that equals: "if you make the save, you don't take the damage".

I'm just being a picky rules laywer since if you take half damage you techincally did not take the weapon's damage; you took half the weapon's damage.

By that logic we can as well assume that you take three times the damage if you save. That would mean that you technically did not take the weapon's damage, too.

Fact is: Nowhere in the rules of autofire, there is any mention of half damage, and Reflex saves aren't "ref half" on default.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

There's a thread in the official boards about the issue

http://boards.wizards.com/community/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=291;t=002417