Autolevelling Items

[Will Doyle]

Say one of your characters wields their father's ancestral sword right from level 1. Rather than have them swap it for the first magic weapon that comes along, they want to have this weapon get enchanted by their deeds, and "level up" alongside them.

How would you deal with this regarding treasure parcels? I guess you could say that instead of getting a new magic item, the sword goes up a point of enhancement when their next parcel of a certain level rolls around. But that's a bit cheap, right? As normally you'd be getting a new item, and you'd keep your old one?

Is there any guidance for this in the rules? In Dragon?

What would you do?

 

[Pentius]

First, I love ancestral swords. Like, so much, you don't even know.

My first preference would be for the Fixed Enhancement Bonus rules in the Dark Sun Campaign Setting, known in common parlance as the Inherent Bonus Rules.

Assuming this for some reason is not feasible, I'd do somewhat like you suggested, simply have the item upgrade(complete with new, sweet powers) and have it increase in power while physically being the same item. If you are concerned about the selling or disenchanting value of the old sword, find a way to give the character the extra gold somewhere else, and just be explicit to the player about it. Or heck, drop in an extra magic item of the sword's old level, parcel math works out about the same.

And I don't know about your specific player(or you, as the case may be), but I do this frequently as a DM, and I ask DMs for it frequently, as a player. And the loss of the old item didn't even occur to me until a few weeks ago.

 

[Mengu]

As normally you'd be getting a new item, and you'd keep your old one?

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The difference is pretty negligible in the long run. But if you are worried about the cost of the old item, just add the appropriate fraction of the cost of the item as gold to one of your treasure parcels.

I've stopped paying attention to parcels for a while. I give an upgrade or a new item to each PC every level on average. I'm doing something like level 2/7/etc they get a bump to magic weapons or get a new magic weapon, 3/8/etc they get a bump to neck item or new neck item, 4/9/etc they get a bump to armor or new armor, and I sprinkle 10-12 other items per half tier as I feel necessary. If I miss my mark, I dump a couple extra items at the end of a half tier. Monetary treasure and consumables typically just get ignored/lost/forgotten about, so I'm really not too worried about that stuff, though the dynamics of each group will be different in that aspect.

 

[Ryujin]

I frequently use this concept, referring to them as "campaign items." As you said, I simply level them up when the character would otherwise receive an equivalent level item. Because of the geometric increases in item cost the amount lost is negligible, but can easily be countered with something like a level appropriate consumable item.

I use the same concept for the Implements of Argent, found in Revenge of the Giants, levelling them up when the characters reach appropriate levels.

 

[Dice4Hire]

To keep balance jsut drop an item of hte weapon's old level when you give them a boost to their weapon

That should keep the math going well.

Great idea BTW

 

[Will Doyle]

My first preference would be for the Fixed Enhancement Bonus rules in the Dark Sun Campaign Setting, known in common parlance as the Inherent Bonus Rules.

Thanks for the tip! I don't have the Dark Sun Campaign Setting, but do you know if these bonuses are any different from those laid out in the DMG 2 for magic item replacement (+1 at 2/7/12/17/22/27)?

In my own games, I tend to ride a little roughshod over parcels (and reading this thread it seems I'm not the only one ). However, these ancestral items are for a theme I'm working on, and - in an effort to design it "properly" - I'm wondering how I could make it work for gamers in general rather than for my own group.

 

[Pentius]

Thanks for the tip! I don't have the Dark Sun Campaign Setting, but do you know if these bonuses are any different from those laid out in the DMG 2 for magic item replacement (+1 at 2/7/12/17/22/27)?

In my own games, I tend to ride a little roughshod over parcels (and reading this thread it seems I'm not the only one ). However, these ancestral items are for a theme I'm working on, and - in an effort to design it "properly" - I'm wondering how I could make it work for gamers in general rather than for my own group.

The Dark Sun rules are the same as the ones in the DMG2, excepting that the Dark Sun ones add the enhancement bonus in d6s on a crit.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I'd go ahead and level it up per each item level tier. RP value is great, as they level they learn the sword's "hidden powers," perhaps look at swords at the various +1 through +6 tiers and pick one as the template for each stage in the player's adventuring career.

As you said look at the DMG 2 and go with that.

So level 1-6 would be a +1 sword with a minor power of some sort.
Level 7-12 would be a +2 sword with a bit better power
Level 13-17 would be a +3 sword with more powers
Level 18-22 would be a powerful +4 or perhaps a wondrous item.
Level 23-27 would be a relic of +5
Level 27+ would be +6 of almost artifact proportions and is sentient at this point, perhaps has the essence of all the ancestors and wielders of the blade before it locked within who speak to the wielder in an unearthly singular voice. They can warn of danger, answer simple questions, etc. Would make it pretty dang fun to role play in my opinion.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I used a mix of auto-leveling items, and finding new items in my last campaign.
Once a player was happy with his enchantment, I saw no point in them ever finding a +3 dwarven battleaxe of throwing, when it seemed more natural to have the existing weapon improve.

I advanced them whenever it was that PCs turn for an item, and crossed an appropriate treasure parcel off the list. Doing this by the parcel meant that they frequently got the improvements before the suggested level, as the parcel system provides items up to level +4.

I like the idea of the party finding a item of the old level, or cash equivalent, more or less at the same time. Ill use that for the next game.

Sometimes I could come up with a good story-fit for the change. Spikes were added to a staff by a by paragon druid) and embedded crystals (handed to a PC after they helped some Eladrin living in a crystal castle) Or when the dwarf returned to his ancestral home and grateful smiths reworked his armor. When the winter king (MV adventure) was killed his ice melted into a PC's frostpelt cloak, and improved its enhancement.

Othertimes it was just a off hand comment at the end of the game. "btw your axe upgrades to +3 for the next session"

 

[Unwise]

What type of character is the PC that has this weapon?

The reason I ask is, it opens up a few options depending on the nature of the artifact. E.G.

Kurag the Unforger - An item strangely holy to both Moradin and Gruumsh (having been used for good purposes and ill in the past), this hammer glows with the heat of the forge and unmakes magical items of defeated foes. It feeds off the residium inside them and grows ever stronger and ever hungrier.

The Fitting End - A magical sword that is proud beyond reason. It sees itself as fighting enemy weapons and armor the say way that its weilder fights the flesh. Upon defeating a foe's weapon/armor it forces it to yeild its power. This is said to further unlock its pride and power. The blade is intensely proud and will grow stronger when its wielder is offered tokens and tribute. In a testiment to its vanity, a wielder that spends exorbitant amounts of gold on stunning armor, clothing, jewelery, perfume etc will find it performing even better.

The Iron Blade of Saint Eldan - Saint Eldan was an adventuring paladin that forwent the extravegance of his peers and sort a life of humility, charity and poverty. He did not long for the best weapons and armor like his peers, prefering instead to spend his earnings to help the less fortunate. When his simple, worn, iron blade was no sufficient to damage the wraith lord, an unknown god blessed it as a reward for his charity. To this day, in the hands of the charitable the blade will always rise to the challenges its wielder faces.

All of these weapons allow for A) Spending cash in some form to power up the weapon and B) Using captured loot to upgrade the weapon. If it were me, I would try and tie the manner of upgrading to the personality of the weapon itself.

Good topic, I'm a little inspired, I might put some of those weapons into my campaign...