Avoiding AOO after being tripped

[green slime]

Well, the same arguments could be applied to running at full speed... let's have a look at the Tumble description...


Now what is normal movement?

Well. It lists crawling at the same time as other non standard modes of movement such as climbing and swimming... Yet I am not 100% sure. The Tumble desc says normal movement... IMHO that excludes anything but walking (Perhaps even the double move action?)
OTOH, Tumble is part of the Move action and crawling is listed under Move actions... But that's no proof either.

After reading that passage I'm now convinced that "tumbling while crawling" is perfectly legitimate way to avoid the AoO.

 

[Hypersmurf]

After reading that passage I'm now convinced that "tumbling while crawling" is perfectly legitimate way to avoid the AoO.

I disagree... it's not the movement that provokes the AoO, it's the crawling.

If I move 30 feet up to someone, entering their threatened area, I don't provoke an AoO. I haven't left any of their threatened squares.

If I crawl 5 feet up to someone, entering their threatened area, I do provoke an AoO - they "threaten me at any point in my crawl".

Tumble can prevent AoOs for movement... but not the AoO provoked by the very fact that I'm crawling.

-Hyp.

 

[green slime]

I disagree... it's not the movement that provokes the AoO, it's the crawling.

If I move 30 feet up to someone, entering their threatened area, I don't provoke an AoO. I haven't left any of their threatened squares.

If I crawl 5 feet up to someone, entering their threatened area, I do provoke an AoO - they "threaten me at any point in my crawl".

Tumble can prevent AoOs for movement... but not the AoO provoked by the very fact that I'm crawling.

-Hyp.

But it wouldn't be a crawl per se... more a roll... Just limiting the move-action to a distance no greater than 5 feet because of their prone position. It better simulates that desperate last second twist to avoid the attack, rather than just on-all-four with bum-in-the-air, hit-me-please feel I get from "crawl=AoO". IMNSHO and all that

 

[Darklone]

The problem by the rules (why I tend to agree with Hyp though I think about houseruling it) is that you can't tumble while climbing or swimming or running... and crawling is something similar. Simply not a "Normal movement".

 

[Li Shenron]

I just think the 3.5 rule for standing up suck.

 

[paranoid]

I disagree... it's not the movement that provokes the AoO, it's the crawling.

Agreed so far.

Tumble can prevent AoOs for movement... but not the AoO provoked by the very fact that I'm crawling.

I have to disagree here. Tumble is better than you think:

from the SRD (Emphasis mine):
Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so.

Tumble apparently not only prevents AoOs for movement, but also all AoOs while moving. So any action that is performed "while doing normal movement" and provokes an AoO is protected by tumble. Admitted, I can only think of two such actions: leaving a threatened area and the aforementioned crawling. All is under the assumption that crawling counts as "normal movement", of course

 

[Hypersmurf]

So any action that is performed "while doing normal movement" and provokes an AoO is protected by tumble. Admitted, I can only think of two such actions: leaving a threatened area and the aforementioned crawling.

It's not in 3.5, but the Tumble wording was the same in 3E, and then, you could sheathe a weapon as part of a move - and sheathing a weapon provokes an AoO.

Would you allow someone sheathing a weapon while leaving a threatened square and tumbling to avoid both AoOs, under 3E rules?

-Hyp.

 

[green slime]

It's not in 3.5, but the Tumble wording was the same in 3E, and then, you could sheathe a weapon as part of a move - and sheathing a weapon provokes an AoO.

Would you allow someone sheathing a weapon while leaving a threatened square and tumbling to avoid both AoOs, under 3E rules?

-Hyp.

I would. I'd up the DC of the Tumble check though.

 

[clark411]

Can you tumble while prone? All I've seen while prone are rules for attacking, getting up, and crawling.

Personally, I don't see the big deal. Making up house rules or interpretations that allow people to avoid prone aoos seems like sidestepping a valid tactic that trip focused monsters rely on to deal a decent amount of damage in combat. It's a ruling that serves to only lower the EL of close quarters combat creatures, and negate a tactic validated by its own feat chain.

I mean, if we're going to say it just plain old sucks and isn't fun to be perpetually tripped (and thus, something to be removed) , why don't we go the whole nine yards and get rid of being swallowed whole, grappled, pinned, or hit by any area affect movement inhibitor (grease, web, etc).

They are all there to just present different penalties in combat
Prone- movement limitation and -4 to melee attacks and ac.
grappled- movement negation and all sorts of goodies
pinned- movement negation and exactly one option for action.
swallowed- movement negation and damage over time, limited options for escape.
greased- reflex saves and movement limitation

similar tactics designed to tap different resources (HP, AC, Reflex Saves, Grapple ability), why give the AC one special attention over the others?

 

[nimisgod]

I could understand the point of crawling then standing though. If you provoke an AoO against wolves (or worgs) for standing up, they could still knock you down. If you provoke an AoO for crawling away, then they couldn't knock you down.

I think the problem is, how do you keep yourself from getting tripped? Enlarge person and its mass counterpart would do well here.