Azathoth took Toughness?

[Aaron L]

The stats presented are for people who want to port the Mythos into D&D games, not for CoC games. If you have your investigators fighting Azathoth, you are doing something wrong (speaking in genre of course, you can do anything you want in your games) But complaining about it is unfair to the people who DO want the stats. I plan to port the creatures, spells, and possibly sanity rules into my D&D game, and I love the fact that they have an appendix for doing so.

 

[Wolfspider]

Yes, but horror is a rather confusing, subjective medium, isn't it? Gadz, our Delta Green keeper had us scared of an inanimate *rock* in our game last week. Somehow, knowing the Move, Reach, Special Qualities, and INT of that rock somehow would have reduced the effectiveness of the scene.

Unless the players were sneaking peeks at the GMs notes, then there's no way that the presence or absence of a stat block would make any difference to the effectiveness of the scene. The stat block exists to make the GMs job easier.

 

[LordMelkor{Talos}]

I have seen stats for Chtulhu monsters in Preview and they are not entirely compatible with Dungeons and Dragons, for example Starspawn of Chtulhu knows 1d10 Chtulhu spells, no spell like abilities or even casting levels, it means he would have to be tweaked for D&D.

 

[Swack-Iron]

How does D20 NOT accurately simulate the setting, besides giving stat blocks to Azathoth and the other big nasties?

Besides stat blocks? I don't know -- I haven't seen the book. I have my doubts that level-based character progression is suitable to the genre, but that's a discussion for another thread.

IMO, any system that wants to simulate HPL's setting needs to, through mechanics and presentation, a) allow characters to navigate the frighteningly murky waters of the world through appropriate stats and skills, b) accurately measure the errosion of sanity through continued contact with the Mythos, c) give the characters a false sense of hope via a relatively minimal ability to effect change (with guns, spells, and research), and d) convay a feeling of the impossible, sanity-stretching largess of the ultimate architects of the Mythos. There are probably a few other things it needs to do, but these are the major ones that come to mind of the top of my head.

Both original and d20 CoC perform well on a, b, and c (at least, from my understanding of what d20 CoC has in it). Both original and d20 fall short, IMO, on d.

As a gamer, when you see a stat block (in any system), don't you automatically deconstruct it? Don't you think "Wow, it's got Powers X, Y & Z -- what a nasty combo! I bet it could only be defeated by either a [this] or a [that]!" In my mind, the very hyper-level of detail in a d20 stat block only enhances this type of metagaming. This kind of thinking, unfortunately, is not conducisve to Lovecraftian horror at the deity level.

Folks, it's a d20 book published by WotC, which means it probably has excellent production values, and written by some of WotC's best authors. I'm especially happy for you if you haven't been exposed to the Mythos before and want to learn about and experience a very special corner of the horror genre (and when you're done, RUN!, don't walk, to your FLGS and find a copy of Delta Green).

I think I'm going to give this book a pass, however.

 

[Wolfspider]

As a gamer, when you see a stat block (in any system), don't you automatically deconstruct it? Don't you think "Wow, it's got Powers X, Y & Z -- what a nasty combo! I bet it could only be defeated by either a [this] or a [that]!" In my mind, the very hyper-level of detail in a d20 stat block only enhances this type of metagaming. This kind of thinking, unfortunately, is not conducisve to Lovecraftian horror at the deity level.

No, I don't automatically deconstruct stat blocks. My mind just doesn't run in that direction, I guess.

Who is supposed to be affected by the horror of the setting, the players or the GM? The players, of course. Who will see the stat blocks of the Lovecraftian nasties? The GM--again, unless the players are sneaking looks at the GM's notes, in which case they shouldn't have as good a time with the game. If the GM provides proper atmosphere and description, the players will be suitabled awed or frightened or whatever. Creature statblocks don't even factor into their experience.

In any case, as others have mentioned, the stats for Azathoth are listed in the D&D conversion guide in the back of the book, not in the section devoted to running a modern CoC game. D&D characters of epic level have an actual chance (however slim) of actually combating one of these horrors and surviving mostly intact. Normal investigators do not.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

IMO, any system that wants to simulate HPL's setting needs to, through mechanics and presentation, a) allow characters to navigate the frighteningly murky waters of the world through appropriate stats and skills, b) accurately measure the errosion of sanity through continued contact with the Mythos, c) give the characters a false sense of hope via a relatively minimal ability to effect change (with guns, spells, and research), and d) convay a feeling of the impossible, sanity-stretching largess of the ultimate architects of the Mythos. There are probably a few other things it needs to do, but these are the major ones that come to mind of the top of my head.

Both original and d20 CoC perform well on a, b, and c (at least, from my understanding of what d20 CoC has in it). Both original and d20 fall short, IMO, on d.

You do realize that Chaosium's system was originally devised for Runequest, right? RQ isn't much like D&D, but it sure is closer to D&D than it is to anything Lovecraft wrote. Chaosium did exactly the same thing with their system that d20 is doing now - customizing it for different genres. Pendragon couldn't be less like CoC, but they use the same base system. Stormbringer also uses the same system as CoC. That system was also used for a number of different games, like Ringworld (way back when). It's only 20 years of getting used to it that makes it all seem "perfect" for a given genre. If you want to pass on it, that's perfectly fine. But I'm sure many decried Chaosium's attempts to do CoC at first.

 

[SonOfLilith]

This is kinda OT, but I love Lovecraft and ecspecialy the Cthulu Mythos. Is there a book that has all the Cthulu stories that lovecraft wrote? I mean, I have one called the Cthulu Mythos, but only two of the stories are writen by lovecraft himself. Thanx.

 

[shadow]

Cthulu D&D crossover

I know that I'll probably catch hell for saying this but I'm very excited with the stats in CoC. I'm waiting to get my hands on a copy of it and then the Epic Level Handbook. I really want to do a serious powergaming epic campaign. (Call it munchkin if you want to) I just want to have a good old hack/slash adventure where the PC can take on gods after reaching epic levels. Azoth would really make a great "Final Boss" for very epic level PC's to challenge. I really don't care to much for 'staying true to the spirit of Lovecraft.' I'm more concerned about having a fun game, even if more serious roleplayers will call it munchkin.

 

[Akunin]

Lovecraft wrote very little about Cthulhu - most of that and the "building up" and "expanding upon" of the Mythos came from authors who followed his style and adopted his characters for their stories. HPL used the Elder Gods and Great Old Ones as plot devices more often than as antagonists, so you only see a few who make reocurring appearances.

If you want to read more of his stories, http://www.gizmology.net/lovecraft/works/index.htm has just about everything Mythos-related he published.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Cthulu D&D crossover

Hi shadow!

I know that I'll probably catch hell for saying this but I'm very excited with the stats in CoC.

So am I!

I'm waiting to get my hands on a copy of it and then the Epic Level Handbook.

Don't forget Deities & Demigods and Faiths & Pantheons too!

I really want to do a serious powergaming epic campaign. (Call it munchkin if you want to) I just want to have a good old hack/slash adventure where the PC can take on gods after reaching epic levels.

...and why not!

Azoth would really make a great "Final Boss" for very epic level PC's to challenge.

'Hes' a bit weak for a final boss, we will probably use him as a random encounter, where he'll likely get pimp slapped up and down the street.*

*I'm joking**

**but not by much!

I really don't care to much for 'staying true to the spirit of Lovecraft.'

I want to play a Call of Cthulhu Campaign as well as use the Great Old Ones in a more hands on Ultra-high level D&D capacity. So I am really looking forward to CoC!

I'm more concerned about having a fun game, even if more serious roleplayers will call it munchkin.

Ignore people that liberally use the m-word in a derogatory fashion. By and large they don't have a clue what they're talking about!