Back to Basics: Races as Class

[Li Shenron]

So tell me what are the good sides of races as classes.

I can't think of any...

Classes are progressions while races are static features (more or less).

Thus if you want to design a racial class, it must provide a progression of features. Otherwise, you don't need a class, it can be the usual race or template.

So the key is coming up with interesting progressive features to embed into a level-based progression. I bet it can be done, but it might not be that simple, because I haven't really see many good ideas around. The problem is perhaps that it's not so easy to think about something exclusively elvish or dwarvish that would progress on its own... For instance, elves usually have better senses, represented by bonuses on Listen and Spot. You could change them into a progression of Listen and Spot total bonuses, but it wouldn't feel that different from a character progressing by the normal skill rules. Their elven progression would be better of course, but that's the same as having a bonus (or a bonus that gets better on its own, whatever your class).

So you'd have to come up with enough ideas, but the room is quite limited, so even if you find them you'd easily end up with narrowing the class, making it a progression of mostly fixed stuff. I can imagine for example that you could base an Elf class to the Wizard class and then replace all the non-spell goodies with elven-flavored goodies. If you find enough so that they are not all fixed but can be chosen, this is no better than having racial feats that can be chosen. If you don't find enough, but are fine with fixed features, this is no better than having an "elf specialty" of suggested feats.

All in all, my point is that I can't see any real good side over what we already have.

But at the same time, I don't see any bad side either.

Maybe something that could be especially interesting within 5e framework, is to create e.g. an Elven Tradition within the Wizard class.

 

[Meatboy]

I can't think of any...

Classes are progressions while races are static features (more or less).

Thus if you want to design a racial class, it must provide a progression of features. Otherwise, you don't need a class, it can be the usual race or template.

So the key is coming up with interesting progressive features to embed into a level-based progression. I bet it can be done, but it might not be that simple, because I haven't really see many good ideas around. The problem is perhaps that it's not so easy to think about something exclusively elvish or dwarvish that would progress on its own... For instance, elves usually have better senses, represented by bonuses on Listen and Spot. You could change them into a progression of Listen and Spot total bonuses, but it wouldn't feel that different from a character progressing by the normal skill rules. Their elven progression would be better of course, but that's the same as having a bonus (or a bonus that gets better on its own, whatever your class).

So you'd have to come up with enough ideas, but the room is quite limited, so even if you find them you'd easily end up with narrowing the class, making it a progression of mostly fixed stuff. I can imagine for example that you could base an Elf class to the Wizard class and then replace all the non-spell goodies with elven-flavored goodies. If you find enough so that they are not all fixed but can be chosen, this is no better than having racial feats that can be chosen. If you don't find enough, but are fine with fixed features, this is no better than having an "elf specialty" of suggested feats.

All in all, my point is that I can't see any real good side over what we already have.

But at the same time, I don't see any bad side either.

Maybe something that could be especially interesting within 5e framework, is to create e.g. an Elven Tradition within the Wizard class.

Yep. I agree whole heartedly with you. My idea here was spawned more from an old school stand point, one in which classes were more of a collection of abilities whose numbers merely got bigger over time. Particularly BECMI, unless you used magic, in which case you actually acrued some new spells as you leveled.