D&D General Back to First Principles

[Lyxen]

We never have had much issue with the game wobbling after name level. I ran an "epic" adventure once in AD&D with characters levels 20-24, and it worked well. Of course, you have world-shaking magics and magical items at this point, along with an artifact or two.

Same here, played plenty at epic level in AD&D with no problem whatsoever.

Anything 5th - 12th was my favorite place to play in AD&D.

It has varied a bit for us depending on the edition but yes, that is our usual sweet spot as well.

 

[Reynard]

If I do end up running a BECMI game it is going to be based around the exploration of the colony ship that brought the pc races to the campaign world (which is of course a megadungeon and environs) and recovery of tech from there, so I plan on giving XP for the value of the components they recover and deliver to the Tech Guild or whatever I call it. I think that preserves the good parts about XP for gold and avoids some of problems.

 

[Aldarc]

If I wanted to return to first principles I would recommend a series of games:

• Worlds Without Number: if B/X and Traveller had a love child (with 3e elements) and oriented towards sandbox play
• Black Hack: a sleek roll-under-attribute OSR game with modern design elements
• Index Card RPG: a lite hack of 5e that became it’s own thing with no levels and item-based progression
• Old School Essentials: your best BECMI clone but with modern layout and editing

 

[Reynard]

If I wanted to return to first principles I would recommend a series of games:

• Worlds Without Number: if B/X and Traveller had a love child (with 3e elements) and oriented towards sandbox play
• Black Hack: a sleek roll-under-attribute OSR game with modern design elements
• Index Card RPG: a lite hack of 5e that became it’s own thing with no levels and item-based progression
• Old School Essentials: your best BECMI clone but with modern layout and editing

Or just play an old version of the game.

I actually don't think most OSR games that aren't actual clones or simulacra give you old school play. They give you an interpretation of it invariably altering and trimming what parts the designer/editor didn't like. Worse are games like Dungeon World, designed to provide a fabricated sense of a play experience that never really existed.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Or just play an old version of the game.

I actually don't think most OSR games that aren't actual clones or simulacra give you old school play. They give you an interpretation of it invariably altering and trimming what parts the designer/editor didn't like. Worse are games like Dungeon World, designed to provide a fabricated sense of a play experience that never really existed.

Oddly enough for myself many things don't matter as much to me, such as increasing AC vs. decreasing AC.

What matters to me is a point made earlier in the thread about what PCs can do (their features as rewards) vs. what PCs actually do (the adventure as the reward).

 

[Remathilis]

Wh

Or just play an old version of the game.

I actually don't think most OSR games that aren't actual clones or simulacra give you old school play. They give you an interpretation of it invariably altering and trimming what parts the designer/editor didn't like. Worse are games like Dungeon World, designed to provide a fabricated sense of a play experience that never really existed.

I find that a Good Thing (TM).

I loved my Rules Cyclopedia and the feel of old-school gaming, but there are things about it that bothered me then, and they bother me more now. So, if I pick up a retro-clone or retro-inspired (My personal choice is Basic Fantasy, which makes no illusions it's trying to marry the B/X style of play with some modern mechanics like race/class separation and upwards AC) which to me represents what I would have much preferred over straight Basic or Advanced D&D. And the math is close enough that almost any Classic module works fine with it. Because like it or not, you're going to end up tinkering with the rules. NOBODY played those editions RAW.

 

[Reynard]

Wh


I find that a Good Thing (TM).

I loved my Rules Cyclopedia and the feel of old-school gaming, but there are things about it that bothered me then, and they bother me more now. So, if I pick up a retro-clone or retro-inspired (My personal choice is Basic Fantasy, which makes no illusions it's trying to marry the B/X style of play with some modern mechanics like race/class separation and upwards AC) which to me represents what I would have much preferred over straight Basic or Advanced D&D. And the math is close enough that almost any Classic module works fine with it. Because like it or not, you're going to end up tinkering with the rules. NOBODY played those editions RAW.

I am always a little baffled at the importance put on upward AC. The math is exactly the same.

Anyway, I was talking less about Basic Fantasy (which fits pretty strongly in the simulacra category) and more about (for example) Five Torches Deep. I like 5TD, but I don't think it is "old school." And I think Dungeon World loses everything that makes old school D&D old-school D&D in favor of making a game that plays like the stories we tell about playing old-school D&D. Which I get. I just don't think that is playing an old school style game (and I personally generallydislike PbtA games).

 

[Lanefan]

Maybe other people followed the letter of the rules more than we did or maybe we just had a lot of magical healing.

Oh, sure; but spells used for healing are spells not being used for something else...

Other than any elf I ever try to run I can only think of 1 other PC of mine that permanently died not counting a killer DM that only ran 1 session.

I've made up the national average for you, then, as over the years I've played at least a village-full into their graves, not to return.

 

[Arilyn]

I've made up the national average for you, then, as over the years I've played at least a village-full into their graves, not to return.

This could be the basis of a horror/survival game. All of Lanefan's dead characters crawling out of their graves seeking revenge... or maybe beer.

 

[Reynard]

What matters to me is a point made earlier in the thread about what PCs can do (their features as rewards) vs. what PCs actually do (the adventure as the reward).

In my perfect game, there wouldn't be any mechanical character advancement at all -- just set competence level and then get to exploring. And "advancement" would come from gear or simple PLAYER experience in the game world/adventure zone/megadungeon/whatever. But I recognize that is a very unpopular opinion.