Backpack Penalty

Water Bob

Adventurer
Would you penalize a character if fighting with a loaded backpack, even if the character is not considered encumbered by weight?


You've got a strong character. He's got everything he owns and them some attached to his back. Bow, quiver full of arrows, bow quiver attached to the outside of the backpack, water skin, bedroll wrapped atop the backpack, backpack, iron cooking pot, leather drinking jack, spare set of clothes for "town", rolled up travel cloak because it is "hot", silver mirror, a week of trail rations, medical and herbal kit.


Add the weight up on all this stuff, and the character can carry it easily. But, it is bulky. And, it probably slides across his back as he moves, defending himself in melee.


Does he deserve a penalty to attack? Maybe a -1 for Fighters, and a -2 for all other character types?


Or, should there be no penalty at all until the weight dictates encumbrance?


Your opinion?
 

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Would you penalize a character if fighting with a loaded backpack, even if the character is not considered encumbered by weight?

No.

By rights, a backpack probably should impose an Armour Check Penalty to skills (exactly the same way as actual armours do in 3.5e), but since that's already part of the encumbrance rules I wouldn't bother adding it separately.

If I was particularly bothered by "backpack abuse", I would impose a maximum limit on the amount of stuff that it can support. Since 2nd Ed uses a value of 50lbs, I'd use that. (Actually, I think the 3.0e PHB has a table of such carrying capacities, but that it was dropped from the 3.5e version.)
 

If I was particularly bothered by "backpack abuse", I would impose a maximum limit on the amount of stuff that it can support. Since 2nd Ed uses a value of 50lbs, I'd use that. (Actually, I think the 3.0e PHB has a table of such carrying capacities, but that it was dropped from the 3.5e version.)

I did this. I used the capacity of the backpack when gauging what could be carried. The player is an equipment whore and has the thing stuffed tight. The iron pot goes into the bag. Most things go inside the pot. The bedroll is rolled and wrapped around the top of the pack. The cloak is flat rolled and wrapped around the center of the pack. Attached to the outside of the pack is the bow satchel, which carries the bow, with pockets for extra bow string. The quiver is part of (attached) to the bow satchel. So, it's backpack, then bow satchel, then quiver. The water skin hangs separately.
 

Instead of going by memory, here's the equipment list for the character.



CLOTHING: Cloth Shirt and Braes (undergarments, though Yuri will wear the shirt as outerwear as mentioned in the description at the top). Heavy wool Pants and thick leather Dock Boots (the boots are fur lined as Yuri prefers to not wear stockings). Leather Belt.

Yuri also owns a thin Hooded Cloak made of cheap cloth. When in towns, he will don his Doublet and Tebenna (Argossean cape). These items he will fold and keep in his kit bag when traveling. The cloak, when he is not wearing it, is tied around the cylindrical bag. On his left forearm, Yuri wears a leather archer's Bracer.

Code:
CLOTHING

Shirt and Braes (--)
Wool Pants  (1.5)
Belt  (0.5)
Fur Lined Dock Boots  (2)
Hooded Cloak  (1)
Doublet  (0.5)
Tebenna  (0.5)  
Left Arm Archer's Bracer  (--)

Total Weight:  6 lbs.





KIT BAG: Yuri carries a canvas kit bag to tote his worldly items. The strap allows him to carry it over one shoulder or across his torso. Inside, you will find a Fishhook and Cat-gut Line, Whetstone, Flint & Steel, and an iron Cooking Pot. The majority of the bag is filled with the tools of his trade: Thieves Tools, Healer's Kit, and a Herbalist Kit. This bag is stuffed so tight that it is difficult to tie the leather laces, especially when Yuri's tebenna and doublet are added to the rest.

Code:
CANVAS KIT BAG

Kit Bag  (0.5)
Fishhook & Cat-gut  (--)
Whetstone  (1)
Flint & Steel  (--)
Iron Cooking Pot  (2)
Thieves Tools  (1)
Healer's Kit  (1)
Herbalist Kit  (4)

Total Weight:  9.5 lbs.



OTHER EQUIPMENT: A tightly bound Bedroll he carries over the opposite shoulder. Along with it hangs a Waterskin. On his weapon belt hangs a stiff leather Pouch that he uses to carry his coin (currently, Yuri has 5 silver Argossean drachmas).

Note: Yuri carries four main items on his torso and back: Quiver/Bow, Kit Bag, Bedroll, and Waterskin.

Code:
OTHER EQUIPMENT

Bedroll  (5)
Waterskin  (4)
Belt Pouch  (0.5)
Weapon Belt  (0.5)

Total Weight:  10 lbs.




QUIVER AND BOW: Yuri owns a Quiver similar to the one shown in the pic below. A pocket on the outside of the quiver holds extra bow strings. As you can see in the picture, the Hunting Bow can also be held in the quiver, whether strung or unstrung. Note how it stick out both ends. This proves to be a bit awkward sometimes when moving cross-country (not easy climbing over rocks with the tips of the bow sticking out like that), but for traveling down the road, it's perfect.

The quiver holds a maximum of 20 arrows. Note the leather is flexible, and the two straps allow the quiver to be worn on the back or at the hip attached by the waist belt (though it's not easy at all to carry the bow with the quiver on the hip).

It takes a standard action to pull the bow from the quiver. It's a move action to string the bow. Both can be done in a single combat round (making the bow ready to fire the following round).

When hunting, of course, Yuri will hold the bow with both hands and one arrow knocked so that quickly he can aim, pull, and fire (as a normal attack).

Note that Yuri has the Point Blank Shot Feat.

CLICK HERE TO SEE QUIVER

Code:
QUIVER & BOW

Quiver and Arrows  (3)
Hunting Bow  (1)

Total Weight:  4 lbs.



WEAPONS: Besides the bow, Yuri carries a Staff that he uses as a walking stick. If Yuri has range on his opponent, he'll use the bow. If he's trying to keep a foe at length, he will use the staff as a Reach weapon.

But, Yuri's favorite combat style is to use two daggers, one in each hand. He carries two worn bone and wire hilt Daggers on his Weapon Belt, one on each hip. Yuri is an experienced knife-man having learned the secrets of the sneak attack style with daggers, whether thrown or in melee.

Code:
WEAPONS

Staff  (3)
Bone and Wire Hilt Dagger  (1)
Bone and Wire Hilt Dagger  (1)

Total Weight:  5 lbs.



ARMOR: When it is not too hot, Yuri will don his cheap Leather Jerkin. This helps to keep the straps from his kit bag, quiver, bedroll, and waterskin from biting into his flesh as he moves down the road.

Code:
ARMOR

Leather Jerkin  (5)

Total Weight:  5 lbs.
 

Don't. Sometimes the pursuit for realism comes at the expense of game expediency and the enjoyment of the group.

If you're going to add in your back pack affecting your character's ability to fight, I wouldn't be surprised if your PCs come up with "quick release straps" so at the beginning of combat they can just dump their pack on the ground as a free action. Even then, this becomes a moot point once PCs get a handy haversack, portable hole, secret chest, or bag of holding. Even followers guarding some pack mules and a cart takes care of this.

If you go down this route you are starting down a slippery slope. You will also have to address things like long spears and ten foot poles. How do the PCs get them through the five foot wide corridor? How did they get them around the corner? Did the PCs put anything heavy on the top of their packs and did it crush the stuff beneath?

Backpacks!
 

I wouldn't be surprised if your PCs come up with "quick release straps" so at the beginning of combat they can just dump their pack on the ground as a free action.

It would still cost them a Move action as they've got to manipulate the knots or buckles, probably one on each shoulder. That's a Move action in game terms.



If you go down this route you are starting down a slippery slope. You will also have to address things like long spears and ten foot poles.

We already address this. I've got a player with a fighter type who uses a pole arm, a sword, and a shield. So, the pole arm has to be dropped, and the shield has to be manipulated off his back, when he goes to sword & board.
 
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Are you asking as the DM?
Or are you asking as a player wanting support in arguing against?

Me? Overall I'm a lazy DM.
1) I simply go by the encumberance rules of whatever edition.
2) I make the assumption that packs get dropped as initiative is rolled. Unless the player actually tells me otherwise. Or I deem that would be impractical/impossible for some reason.
3) Move actions, swift actions, attack action, full attack action, free action, bonus action, reaction actions, etc.... Too many @!#* types of actions in these games. And they vary by edition/system. Just tell me what you're doing & if I deem the particular situation has some extra modifier I'll let you know.
 

Are you asking as the DM?

I'm the DM, but it's not an issue in the game. I"m just thinking out loud and discussing it with fellow gamers.

2) I make the assumption that packs get dropped as initiative is rolled. Unless the player actually tells me otherwise.

I'm old school on this. I don't assume anything. What the player describes is what happens, and if he doesn't say that he drops his pack, then he doesn't.


3) Move actions, swift actions, attack action, full attack action, free action, bonus action, reaction actions, etc.... Too many @!#* types of actions in these games.

The version of d20 3.5 that we play doesn't have all those actions. There is only: Standard Action, Move Action, Full Action, and Free Action. Nothing else.
 

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