[Bad Axe Games] Creature Creation Questions

[TheAuldGrump]

Hmmm tried asking these on the Bad Axe forum on Mortality, but no response... So...

What should be the CR modifier for a continuous damage effect? In this case I want to figure out the CR for a creature that deals 2d6 cold damage in a 20' area around its base, with a Fort. save for half damage. This is a constant effect of the creature, and in fact it can not 'turn it off', even if it wants to.

Related to that, how could it be added to the handy dandy spreadsheet that is included with the PDF? If it can't I won't be too upset, that is where pencil and paper come in handy...

A more annoying problem with the spreadsheet however is the limit of 20 to natural armor, not including Size bonus. There are creatures in the Monster Manual who have higher than that, so the limit prevents reworking the CRs with the program. Adding another type of armor bonus might work, but...

The Auld Grump

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

What should be the CR modifier for a continuous damage effect? In this case I want to figure out the CR for a creature that deals 2d6 cold damage in a 20' area around its base, with a Fort. save for half damage. This is a constant effect of the creature, and in fact it can not 'turn it off', even if it wants to.

Off the top of my head:

You could do this two ways.

You could build it as a spell (like Flaming Sphere or Fire Shield) and cost it out that way. I think that would actually tend to under-cost it.

Or you could just call it +0.2 and be done.

Most abilities are 0.1 for non-combat effects (low-light vision), 0.2 for combat effects (and all feats, by the way), and 0.5 for VERY impactful combat effects. A single effect has to be pretty significant to add more than 0.2 at a time.

Related to that, how could it be added to the handy dandy spreadsheet that is included with the PDF? If it can't I won't be too upset, that is where pencil and paper come in handy...

You could go with p&p or you could use one of the "blank" GM entries near the bottom of the sheet. There are plenty of places to add +0.2 on the sheet.

A more annoying problem with the spreadsheet however is the limit of 20 to natural armor, not including Size bonus. There are creatures in the Monster Manual who have higher than that, so the limit prevents reworking the CRs with the program. Adding another type of armor bonus might work, but...

We're aware of this one and it will be fixed in the next revision.

Adding another type (like deflection) would work.

Wulf

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Thank you. I had noticed the recurring +0.2 number, but wanted to know if there was a formula. Since there isn't, no problem! For some reason I didn't think of the GM slots for putting the number, my bad there.

I am glad that the armor limitation has been noticed, that was by far the worse of the problems. I was wondering if it was some leftover from the Grim Tales rules or something. Bugs happen, again, thank you for the response.

In any event as the two critters end up being in the 20 plus a lot CR range, they aren't going to see play for a while yet. :\ (I statted out two of the MacFarland dragons.) Is it just me, or do dragons end up having a much higher CR in the Creature Creation system than in the core rules? Not a complaint, but quite a surprise when I looked at the numbers.

The Water Clan dragon in particular was just a blue dragon with Swim instead of Fly, and an alternate way of using its breath weapon. (Given that the dragon does not have a choice of which to use, that being dictated be terrain, I did not change the CR much for that at all, at all.) But the number was much higher than the standard blue, even before he was finished. I was not as surprised at the CR for the Fire Clan dragon, since he is a much different beasty than either the red or white dragons, being the kind of dragon that would find Iceland homey... fire and ice. And was deliberately crippled when young.

The Auld Grump

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Is it just me, or do dragons end up having a much higher CR in the Creature Creation system than in the core rules? Not a complaint, but quite a surprise when I looked at the numbers.

It's not just you. Dragons in the core rules are deliberately undercosted in order to make them "seem" tougher.

In practice this means that a 10th level party who encounters a CR10 dragon-- which should be a moderate encounter for them-- will walk away from that fight going, "Man! Dragons are tough!" The assumption being, of course, that most GMs are not smart enough to play the dragon intelligently enough to make it genuinely tough. Hence, the CR crutch.

It's asinine, and it undermines the usefulness of CR to the GM.

You can multiply by .75 again after the spreadsheet gives you your FINAL CR for a "WOTC" estimate of your dragon's CR. (Or you can take the figure shown in the "Golden Rule" cell and divide by 2 before performing any rounding off, just to make sure nothing gets rounded off twice.)

 

[TheAuldGrump]

It's not just you. Dragons in the core rules are deliberately undercosted in order to make them "seem" tougher.

In practice this means that a 10th level party who encounters a CR10 dragon-- which should be a moderate encounter for them-- will walk away from that fight going, "Man! Dragons are tough!" The assumption being, of course, that most GMs are not smart enough to play the dragon intelligently enough to make it genuinely tough. Hence, the CR crutch.

It's asinine, and it undermines the usefulness of CR to the GM.

You can multiply by .75 again after the spreadsheet gives you your FINAL CR for a "WOTC" estimate of your dragon's CR. (Or you can take the figure shown in the "Golden Rule" cell and divide by 2 before performing any rounding off, just to make sure nothing gets rounded off twice.)

Hmmm, makes sense both ways, it means that battles with dragons are memorable at any rate, even if the memories are of a TPK...

I ended up toning the aquatic blue down a hair, while underwater the electric field that replaces the breath weapon while underwater deals nonlethal damage, primarily used as a means of hunting for food, and, when dealing with intelligent species, capturing people for ransom. I replaced the destroy/create food & drink of the blue with water breathing, used on captives, and removable at will...

The Auld Grump