Bad dice rolls make combat last forever

[lingshu8]

The other day my 5 year-old said to me out of the blue "I want to play Dungeons & Dragons," which made my heart sing. I decided to start him off Old School with a classic D&D dungeon crawl. He had a blast, but toward the end of the session, during a combat with some skeletons, we got stuck in a string of bad rolls -- both he and the skeletons kept rolling 4's and 5's, miss after miss after miss. At first, we had fun imagining what lame goofs both sides were making, but after a while it began to grind on and on and become quite dull -- I could see his eyes glazing over.

What specific advice does anyone have for modifying combat rules so that a series of bad dice rolls do not make the combat last forever?

 

[Stormonu]

Some ideas if the combat gets tedious

1) Gain a +1 cumulative bonus to the next roll each time you miss. The bonus resets to 0 after a hit. This will ensure at some point one side or the other will land a hit. You can make this dramatic if both sides get the bonus - then it becomes worrisome who is going to get that last hit in first.

2) If its the last monster, you aren't making to-hit rolls, just damage rolls. If your really generous, just kill it off.

3) In one-on-one combats, modify the to-hit die roll for dramatic descriptions.

 

[amerigoV]

Its it just one player? I would give them some chips they can play to either reroll or gives a big plus. They could earn a few more during play if they do something cool (if you have every played Savage Worlds - I am thinking Bennies here).

 

[Razjah]

You could give reward token for different activities that can be cashed in for a re-roll. You son is 5, how about something like earning a token for correctly adding his die roll and modifiers. If you roll in the open and inform him of the modifiers and he catches you making a mistake give him two. If he is better at math (I'm not sure how good a 5 year old is with this), perhaps you can compete with each other, if he beats you to the addition then he gets a token.

You could also just start with a couple "No, I'm awesome tokens" which are just a parental version of the F---K You, I'm Awesome! Token. Actually, this is probably the best method, it would allow him to turn a miss into a hit, a hit into a crit (if you use them), or just maximize damage, or your son can use them to protect his character.


If the two of you have seen the Prince of Persia Disney movie (I assume he never played the Sands of Time game from 2003) you can use the dagger mechanic. He can find a cool sword that lets him re-wind time a couple times a session and change what happened. It could allow him to force enemies to re-roll, let him change his mind about who he attacks, and most importantly let him re-roll attacks to hit.

 

[Mark CMG]

On the other end of the spectrum, introducing some aspect of fatigue in combat can be an additional challenge to overcome. Learning to retreat from some battles, not just because you are over-matched but also because a long fight takes its toll, is a good lesson even for beginning players to learn.

 

[lingshu8]

Thanks for all the replies!

Stormonu:
Gain a +1 cumulative bonus to the next roll each time you miss.

I like it... though a string of bad rolls would still be possible, just cumulatively less likely. In my example, we both rolled under 5 several times in a row (none of those would have hit even with a cumulative bonus).

I remember years ago, Paul Mason once suggested that "ALL die rolls should do SOMETHING." When my son and I rolled a string of misses, it was as if all of these rolls were doing NOTHING -- which was true. Even with cumulative bonuses, a lot of rolls would still "do nothing."

The way Paul dealt with it was to say that, if neither you nor your opponent roll above your target number, then the higher roll gets a partial or marginal success. In other words, someone "wins" every round -- the dice just show who and my how much.

amerigoV:
I would give them some chips they can play to either reroll or gives a big plus.

Razjah:
You could give reward token for different activities

The chips sound like a fun idea. Kids love getting stuff like that (stickers, gold stars, etc). It is kind of a meta-game solution -- but that might be the most appropriate approach for someone in my son's age group.

Mark CMG:
On the other end of the spectrum, introducing some aspect of fatigue in combat can be an additional challenge to overcome.

This is appealing to me because it certainly feels more realistic than cumulative bonuses (there's really no game world rationale for both sides hitting BETTER as a fight drags on into overtime). But, of course, it wouldn't solve the problem of a string of bad rolls, just give the players motivation for breaking off combat if things go badly for a long stretch -- again, this definitely seems more plausible. As written (in classic D&D at least), there is no motivation for either side to break off a combat in which both sides keep missing, roll after roll after roll...

Thanks again, everybody. Any other ideas out there?

 

[amerigoV]

amerigoV:
I would give them some chips they can play to either reroll or gives a big plus.

Razjah:
You could give reward token for different activities

The chips sound like a fun idea. Kids love getting stuff like that (stickers, gold stars, etc). It is kind of a meta-game solution -- but that might be the most appropriate approach for someone in my son's age group.

You would be surprise how well it works on adults, too!

 

[Mark CMG]

Mark CMG:
On the other end of the spectrum, introducing some aspect of fatigue in combat can be an additional challenge to overcome.

This is appealing to me because it certainly feel more realistic than cumulative bonuses (there's really no game world rationale for both sides hitting BETTER as a fight drags on into overtime). But, of course, it wouldn't solve the problem of a string of bad rolls, just give the players motivation for breaking off combat if things go badly for a long stretch -- again, this definitely seems more plausible. As written (in classic D&D at least), there is no motivation for either side to break off a combat in which both sides keep missing, roll after roll after roll...

Thanks again, everybody. Any other ideas out there?

It does allow for a teaching moment, too, in that groups that can setup a bottleneck and take turns fighting and resting can lengthen their ability to hold up in longer combats while their opponents might not have the wherewithal to plan for such things and receive some minus while fatigued. Of course, creatures like skeletons aren't going to tire, which just raises the challenge against such foes.

 

[Random Bystander]

Maybe it wasn't a series of misses. Maybe it was an epic duel.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC6dgtBU6Gs[/ame]

 

[Random Bystander]

I decided to start him off Old School with a classic D&D dungeon crawl.

So? "Miss" just means "Did no damage". It doesn't have to be an actual "Your sword goes right past them and hits the ground".

Most of the strikes in that video are misses. It's still epic.