Generally players make the assumption that the challenge the DM sets for them is overcomeable. By the sounds of it 4 characters with some soldiers would have had a reasonable challenge but would have overcome it. The fact that your players decided to split up and not use the soldiers was downright dumb. I'd have tried to kill the wizard too. A couple rocks from the hill giant would have put an end to him.
Bad DM'ing night
- Thread starter Kris
- Start date
Ozmar
First Post
BlackMoria said:You think your a bad DM because your players sent only half the party on a half baked plan to assault the orc war band, that went awry due to it being...well, a half baked plan and one of the party gets captured by brutal, vicious orcs and then dies a slow death because the party failed to act in a timely fashion?
Hmmm. Yep, your a bad DM. You let one get away. A good DM would have bagged both.
Seriously, don't beat yourself up over this. The players have the majority blame in this.
Totally agree. I mean, c'mon! They attacked 100+ orcs with a wizard and a bard?!?!
I mean, really... a bard? No wonder they got crucified (pun intended).
Ozmar the Merciless
Brother MacLaren
Explorer
Normally, I'm a defender of the bard class, but this makes it tough. A 7th-level bard is a major asset when you have a number of combatants (other PCs, peasant archers, summoned creatures, or whatever). Haste and Inspire Courage (can get +3 with just Complete Adventurer) are pretty potent.Ozmar said:Totally agree. I mean, c'mon! They attacked 100+ orcs with a wizard and a bard?!?!
I mean, really... a bard? No wonder they got crucified (pun intended).
But even in this situation there were a few good bard options:
1) Alter Self, Bluff, Glibness, Charm Person, and Charm Monster in some creative infiltration, maybe kill someone important and sneak out without being noticed.
2) Creative use of illusions -- never underestimate those.
3) Fire off a Confusion and hope you get the giant and/or leader to kill some of their friends, then run with Exp Retreat and/or Invisibility.
dpmcalister
Explorer
I'll be perfectly honest. If I were the DM of your game that night, I doubt I'd have done a single thing differently (given the circumstances you mention).
Indeed, if I were the player I'd be happy with your handling of it (not happy at the PC death obviously, but you sound as if you were more than fair). In fact, I'd, as the player, but more upset that none of the other PCs tried to rescue my PC
But, then, I'm the sort of player who frequently puts some of his PCs directly in the firing line (such as on Tuesday night when I put my 2nd-level dwarven barbarian (who'd run out of rages for the day and was on 3hp) purposely in the path of an ogre heading our way so that the rest of the party could deal with the 2 raging orc barbarians before the ogre arrived. Thankfully, the DM rolled crap (he chose to roll in front of us because of the situation). I'm the sort of player who turns round and says, "Hey, it's what he'd do!" even if it meant the certain death of the character.
Indeed, if I were the player I'd be happy with your handling of it (not happy at the PC death obviously, but you sound as if you were more than fair). In fact, I'd, as the player, but more upset that none of the other PCs tried to rescue my PC
But, then, I'm the sort of player who frequently puts some of his PCs directly in the firing line (such as on Tuesday night when I put my 2nd-level dwarven barbarian (who'd run out of rages for the day and was on 3hp) purposely in the path of an ogre heading our way so that the rest of the party could deal with the 2 raging orc barbarians before the ogre arrived. Thankfully, the DM rolled crap (he chose to roll in front of us because of the situation). I'm the sort of player who turns round and says, "Hey, it's what he'd do!" even if it meant the certain death of the character.
hopeless
Adventurer
Reg: Bad Night Out
They did what!
I'd have nailed the wizard first and then go after the bard... no offence but a fireball is a fireball... the first foe the now angry horde would target would be the spellcaster even if its just to stop a second fireball being cast...
Out of curiosity how did they reach the horde camp given the patrols, however I do wonder about the one trying to obtain an animal companion... there's a horde en route which is likely to strip the area of any potential recruits and they waste an entire day just to summon a companion?
Perhaps I should focus more on why they didn't even attempt a rescue... actually what character did the former bard then generate?
Would like to hear what happened next... did they learn from this mistake?
Kris said:I think I ran a pretty poor game tonight... which ended in a character death.
To cut a long story short, one of the guys was spending the day getting a new animal companion and the rest of the guys carried on without him. One other guy stayed behind with a group of soldiers gathered at a ford (where they all hoped to defend against a oncoming orc legion) while the other two guys (lvl 7) went off to harass the aforementioned horde (of at least 100 orcs and a possible giant).
No stealth involved... just ride down the road to meet them in their camp :S
The encounter ended with the wizard fleeing (flying and invisible), the bard captured, and their horse (who could not be successfully controlled in combat) killed.
During the battle the wizard fire-balled the orc host when they came into range (unfortunately a failed spot check didn't let him notice the prisoners in their ranks... prisoners who were to be executed as a sacrifice before the main battle).
So... the bard took their place. And no rescue party came for him that night
Here's where it got messy. He was beaten unconscious and then gagged and bound. I used the crucifixion rules from BoVD and had the PC hung on the cross (after midnight) in a place that would be visible to the 'good guys' the next morning (to demoralise the enemy - from the orc's point of view).
Unfortunately this didn't give the PC any real chance of escape (my bad... he could not beat the escape DC) though I thought he would just be able to hold out until morning and might be saved in the nick of time by his comrades. Unfortunately some of his antics got him smacked with a mace before the orcs left him... so his HP were down and, needless to say, he did not make it through till morning
So, although I think the group's actions were a little reckless, I'm kinda annoyed with myself for putting the PC in a situation that meant certain death (it's what was planned for the original prisoners - but not very good D&D from a player's point of view). Things had not gone how I expected (death of the original prisoners/capture of the bard)... so I just carried on with the BBEG's agenda when I probably should have thought a little quicker on my feet and done something to make this into an interesting encounter rather than a death sentence.
So tonight I consider myself a bad DM... though I guess I'm lucky that the player is not too annoyed, and is happy enough to roll up a new character.
Just needed to get that of my chest.
They did what!
I'd have nailed the wizard first and then go after the bard... no offence but a fireball is a fireball... the first foe the now angry horde would target would be the spellcaster even if its just to stop a second fireball being cast...
Out of curiosity how did they reach the horde camp given the patrols, however I do wonder about the one trying to obtain an animal companion... there's a horde en route which is likely to strip the area of any potential recruits and they waste an entire day just to summon a companion?
Perhaps I should focus more on why they didn't even attempt a rescue... actually what character did the former bard then generate?
Would like to hear what happened next... did they learn from this mistake?
Bad Player Decisions
The situation described by the OP is mostly the result of a number of bad decisons by the players.
The OP, as DM, had a plan for the bad guys & stuck to it. Consistant DM decisions, with rulebook support for things like crucifiction, gives a campaign where the players know that their characters can get clobbered if they don't pay attention.
If the OP wishes he can open the next session by admitting that he was uncomfortable with killing a PC. The opponents have their own plans & motivations, and the players need to know that their DM will be playing them as such.
At 7th level the PCs have enough resources to have a dead comrade brought back from the dead. This not being done could affect the morale of the NPCs who are with the party.
Regards,
Balnagown
The situation described by the OP is mostly the result of a number of bad decisons by the players.
The OP, as DM, had a plan for the bad guys & stuck to it. Consistant DM decisions, with rulebook support for things like crucifiction, gives a campaign where the players know that their characters can get clobbered if they don't pay attention.
If the OP wishes he can open the next session by admitting that he was uncomfortable with killing a PC. The opponents have their own plans & motivations, and the players need to know that their DM will be playing them as such.
At 7th level the PCs have enough resources to have a dead comrade brought back from the dead. This not being done could affect the morale of the NPCs who are with the party.
Regards,
Balnagown
- one of the guys was spending the day getting a new animal companion and the rest of the guys carried on without him.
- One other guy stayed behind with a group of soldiers gathered at a ford (where they all hoped to defend against a oncoming orc legion)
- while the other two guys (lvl 7) went off to harass the aforementioned horde (of at least 100 orcs and a possible giant).
- No stealth involved... just ride down the road to meet them in their camp :S
- Bard and wizard on 1 horse, not trained for combat
Print that out, show it to the players, and ask how they thought that was a good idea.
Bagpuss
Legend
Moon-Lancer said:In this case, i think it was about half the dms fault. Alot of the bad things that happened to the bard you acted as if it was out of your hands, when it clearly never should be out of your hands. see
So your saying the players have no real control of their characters destiny then?
Put me down for another vote for bad player choices not bad DM'ing.
I think the only think I might have done different is only hang him up just before dawn, that way it would have been more likely he would last longer. That or have the PC's army's pickets reporting that they can here the tortured screams of the PC during the night and make it clear to the other players that he's in a bad way, and it is also destroying their armies moral, but hindsight is 20/20. Still it sounds like they would have still left him to die.
Oh and can I just say I would love to have a character die from being crucified before a battle. It certainly beats dieing to a luckly critical from some orc barbarian, or other such random death. Trust me that bard's legend will live on.
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