Bad guys take the PCs alive?

[RangerWickett]

I know that in 4e, if a PC drops an NPC to 0, he can choose to kill or just knock out the bad guy. But what about an NPC knocking out a PC?

Does the PC make death saves, with no penalty for failure, but the chance to still wake up on a 20?

 

[domino]

I don't see why an NPC can't do the same to a PC. And my reading is that there's no death saves needed/made, just that the PCs wind up "taking a short rest" and regain conciousness when it's dramatically appropriate.

 

[Riastlin]

I would absolutely allow an enemy to deal subdual to the PC when he drops him below 0. To be honest though, I'm not certain as to whether or not the PC gets to make death saves (with the idea being that a 20 wakes him up). Certainly, the PC in question is not dying which would lend support to the argument that he not be allowed to make the save. At the same time, just sitting there with nothing to do, or even the chance to do something, would really suck for the player in question. I wouldn't apply any penalties for failing the saves though.

I guess the easiest thing might be to point to the rules for stabilizing a dying character. IIRC, stabilizing the character means he no longer needs to make death saves until he takes more damage. Now ordinarily, the character in question wouldn't want to take the save anyway since the chance of something positive (5%) is far outweighed by the chance for a negative (45%). But I think it would be reasonable to rule a PC who was knocked below 0 with subdual damage to be unconscious but stabilized. As far as I know, there's nothing official that allows the character to make a death save in this situation other than perhaps a succesful heal check by another PC.

 

[Dalamar]

The way I'm going to run it if it ever comes up is that the player won't even know if he's going to die. He'll make his death saves normally, and three failures means he's totally out cold, to be revived by the bad guys at their leisure.

 

[Cidwin]

The way I'm going to run it if it ever comes up is that the player won't even know if he's going to die. He'll make his death saves normally, and three failures means he's totally out cold, to be revived by the bad guys at their leisure.

I have run it exactly like this in the past and it works out fine.

The real key is that the PC's have to make death saves, or they feel no threat. If you tell them they are making saves to fall unconscious, they may get complacent and go along with it, assuming it's just part of the story.

I prefer to "kill" them, and then have them wake up in a cell later. You typically get a lot more emotion when they think they are dying too