GMing: How to fudge NOT using the dice.

[Maxperson]

There are times, though, when it is a rule. A dungeon level or adventure chapter will tell you (not advise, tell) to roll random encounters every X time, and if one comes up, use chart Y to determine the encounter. That is a rule. Therefore, isn't deciding not to roll, or changing the result of the roll, fudging in that sense?

A dungeon can't be a rule. The module may tell you to roll for random encounters, but it's always just a suggestion since modules don't make rules. And just because the game has a rule to roll for random encounters, random being whether one is encountered or not, doesn't make the random encounter chart put there as an aid, a rule.

This is from the 1e DMG random terrain table.

"If a wilderness expedition moves into an area where no detailed map has been prepared in advance, the random terrain determination system below can be utilized with relative ease for a 1 space = 1 mile, or larger, scale. In using it, however, common sense must prevail. For example, if the expedition is in the north country the forest will be pine or possibly
scrub, while in tropical regions it will be jungle. Similarly, if a pond is indicated in two successive spaces, the two should be treated as one larger body of water. The Dungeon Master must also feel free to add to the random terrain as he sees fit in order to develop a reasonable configuration."
So if the random roll indicates an unreasonable configuration, the DM can and should just ignore that roll and either re-roll, or just decide the terrain as he feels is right. Because the chart is an aid, not a rule that is binding.

This is said in the 1e DMG regarding random encounters.

"When a random monster encounter is indicated, go to the appropriate portion of the table and roll percentile dice. Read down the Dice Score column until the total of the dice is found, then read right to find the creature encountered. Inappropriate encounters should be ignored and a new number generated in order to gain a reasonable result."

You can't fudge an aid there just to help you figure out what encounter to have. You can only fudge a hard rule.

 

[Reynard]

A dungeon can't be a rule. The module may tell you to roll for random encounters, but it's always just a suggestion since modules don't make rules. And just because the game has a rule to roll for random encounters, random being whether one is encountered or not, doesn't make the random encounter chart put there as an aid, a rule.

Now we are in that fuzzy place where we try and define exactly what constitutes a "rule" in TTRPGs. Technically, nothing is a rule except Rule 0, so there is no such thing as fudging -- but that is both lazy and intellectually unsatisfying.

 

[Maxperson]

Now we are in that fuzzy place where we try and define exactly what constitutes a "rule" in TTRPGs. Technically, nothing is a rule except Rule 0, so there is no such thing as fudging -- but that is both lazy and intellectually unsatisfying.

Right. I was not going to rule 0 for a reason. There are written rules and there are places written only to be aids in helping you decide something. Random charts are there only to help the DM decide, not decide for the DM, and not to be in any way binding(insofar as rule 0 isn't used).

 

[Reynard]

Right. I was not going to rule 0 for a reason. There are written rules and there are places written only to be aids in helping you decide something. Random charts are there only to help the DM decide, not decide for the DM, and not to be in any way binding(insofar as rule 0 isn't used).

Depending on the game. In Shadowdark, for example, Random Encounters are NOT presented as an optional rule or an "aid." They are presented as a thing that happens every X hours of in-game time (depending on circumstances). The only caveat is that the GM can choose to roll more often if the PCs make a lot of noise. So that is a rule, no?

 

[Maxperson]

Depending on the game. In Shadowdark, for example, Random Encounters are NOT presented as an optional rule or an "aid." They are presented as a thing that happens every X hours of in-game time (depending on circumstances). The only caveat is that the GM can choose to roll more often if the PCs make a lot of noise. So that is a rule, no?

Sure. I'm talking D&D here. Other games could absolutely do it differently, including not having a rule 0.

 

[Reynard]

Sure. I'm talking D&D here. Other games could absolutely do it differently, including not having a rule 0.

This is a TTRPGS General thread.

 

[Maxperson]

This is a TTRPGS General thread.

Sure, but then what is a rule or not, optional or not, fudging or not will all be.....................depends.

 

[Reynard]

Sure, but then what is a rule or not, optional or not, fudging or not will all be.....................depends.

I tend to think of it more broadly: if you roll a die to resolve a thing, then ignore the die and choose a different result, you fudged. This applies across the board. It's less about ignoring rules than it is about ignoring the dice you summoned.

 

[Thomas Shey]

The easiest way to do so if you don't declare them is to adjust the target numbers or active user bonuses after the fact. If this is a one-off or only used for a short period, this can impossible to detect with physical dice rolling or automated usage where only the dice themselves are displayed, but its harder to pull off if being used as an ongoing process (attentive players who can see the dice will notice if the same monster's bonuses seem to fluctuate from roll to roll).

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think a key difference, though, is that this stuff is visible to the players. 'Hey, why'd they come over here when I'm actually invisible?'. 'Hey, how did he get over there so fast?'. They have an opportunity to challenge things that don't seem to make sense. The GM silently changing a roll of 20 to a 17, or a DC 10 to a DC 12, offers no such opportunity.

Though as I note the latter can become visible with repetition.