Bag of Holding

[mvincent]

To place something else into the mix:
Looking at my copy of the SRD, it notes what happens when a bag of holding and a portable hole interacts, but does the same thing happen when two bags of holding interact? (my feeling is yes).

The 3.0 FAQ said yes, while the RotG said no, so take your pick (both rulings were written by Skip Williams).

 

[Dross]

The 3.0 FAQ said yes, while the RotG said no, so take your pick (both rulings were written by Skip Williams).

Hhhmm, I wonder of the change in rulings has something to do with the changes between 3.0 and 3.5 (assuming the RotG uses the 3.5 ruleset)?

We may never know.

 

[robberbaron]

But that is a case of the rules making a factual error. A 6 foot diameter, 10 foot deep hole has enough air for almost 4 hours, not 10 minutes. Without circulation, carbon dioxide build up will make problems shortening that time, but not down to ten minutes. Most scuba equipment is based on using one or more 72 cubic foot air tanks (as in: pressurized to contain enough air to fill 72 cubic feet at one atmosphere).

True, but factor in the increased respiration caused by being shut in a small hole with no way of getting out and the air will last a whole lot less time.

Come to think of it, the only things I've ever seen put into portable holes, etc., were inanimate, already dead or wearing neckalaces of adaptation.

Does anyone use these things to transport people/livestock?

 

[mvincent]

Hhhmm, I wonder of the change in rulings has something to do with the changes between 3.0 and 3.5 (assuming the RotG uses the 3.5 ruleset)?

We may never know.

There was no change in this regard from 3.0 to 3.5. Studying this has been something of a pastime for me.

From the 3.0 rules:

"Bag of Holding
The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions. Regardless of what is put into the bag, it weighs a fixed amount. This weight, and the limits in weight and volume of the bag’s contents, depend on the bag’s type, as shown on the table below:
Bag Bag Weight Volume Market
Type Weight Limit Limit Price
---- ------ ------ ------ ------
Bag 1 15 lb. 250 lb. 30 cu. ft. 2,500 gp
Bag 2 25 lb. 500 lb. 70 cu. ft. 5,000 gp
Bag 3 35 lb. 1,000 lb. 150 cu. ft. 7,400 gp
Bag 4 60 lb. 1,500 lb. 250 cu. ft. 10,000 gp
If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever. If a bag of holding is turned inside out, its contents spill out, unharmed, but the bag must be put right before it can be used again. If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate. Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move ¬equivalent action, unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action.
If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.
Caster Level: 9th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest."

From the 3.5 rules:

Bag of Holding
This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size. The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions. Regardless of what is put into the bag, it weighs a fixed amount. This weight, and the limits in weight and volume of the bag’s contents, depend on the bag’s type, as shown on the table below.
Bag Bag Weight Contents
Weight Limit Contents
Volume Limit Market Price
Type I 15 lb. 250 lb. 30 cu. ft. 2,500 gp
Type II 25 lb. 500 lb. 70 cu. ft. 5,000 gp
Type III 35 lb. 1,000 lb. 150 cu. ft. 7,400 gp
Type IV 60 lb. 1,500 lb. 250 cu. ft. 10,000 gp
If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever. If a bag of holding is turned inside out, its contents spill out, unharmed, but the bag must be put right before it can be used again. If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate. Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move action—unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action.

If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.
Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest.

From the Rules of the Game:

"Extradimensional spaces are notorious for creating spectacular and dangerous effects when placed inside each other; however, the dangers can be somewhat overrated. One bag of holding can be placed safely inside another (of course, the first bag's weight counts against what the second bag can hold). Likewise, one portable hole can be placed safely inside another.

A bag of holding placed inside a portable hole, however, creates a rift to the Astral Plane. (See the bag of holding excerpt.) Oddly enough, objects aren't drawn through the gate.

It's best to treat a Heward's handy haversack as a bag of holding when it interacts with a portable hole.

Other interactions between extradimensional spaces are possible. For example, the rope trick and Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion both create extradimensional spaces. The rope trick spell description makes a passing mention of "hazards" associated with placing one extradimensional space inside another, but gives no details. (See the rope trick excerpt.)

I recommend that you ignore this reference. Your campaign won't be improved if rope trick effects implode when someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside. A Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion should likewise prove benign if someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside."

From the 3.0 FAQ::

“It’s a general rule that you can’t mix items containing nondimensional or extradimensional spaces (things that are bigger inside than out) with each other or with portable holes. Such combinations tend to strain the fabric of the cosmos. Putting one bag of holding within another is just like putting the bag into a portable hole. Items that function like bags of holding, such as Heward’s handy haversacks, cause the same mishaps when mishandled.

Note you can freely go plane hopping with portable holes, bags of holding, and the like. Spells that produce their own extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, pose no danger to occupants who may be using portable holes, bags of holding, and the like."

From the 2ed guide to High-level campaigns, section on magic items:

"Extradimensional Spaces: These items tend to produce spectacular effects when one is placed within another. The following items contain extradimensional spaces: bag of holding, bag of transmuting, flatbox†, girdle of many pouches, Heward’s handy haversack, portable hole, and pouch of accessibility. The following spells produce extradimensional spaces: extradimensional pocket†, Mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion, and rope trick.

In most instances, placing one extradimensional space inside another opens a rift to the Astral Plane, casting both the items and their contents through the rift. The items and anything contained within them are scattered randomly in the infinite depths of the Astral Plane."

 

[FoxWander]

I don't think you can fit a medium size or larger creature through the opening. Assuming that flat the bag is 2ft per side, then the circumference is 4ft, leaving the diameter of a circular opening at about 1.3ft. I know I wouldn't be able to fit in there and that's even without any clothes on, let alone full plate or something.

But keep in mind that it's a flexible opening. It won't get any larger than it's 48in circumference but it's not a fixed 1.3ft circle. Most people probably can fit thru such an opening. I just tried it myself with a length of rope. I measured off 4ft and made a loop of it (making sure it was still 4ft after tying the knot). Now granted, I'm on the skinny side, but I fit it over my head and shoulders quite easily and it just fell after that.

Pretty much anyone with less than a 48in waist or shoulder measurement should fit thru without difficulty. Even someone a bit larger than that could fit if they were tied or wrapped up appropriately. Most adventurers don't carry girdles or corsets to throw on prisoners, but rope should do the trick- provided you don't care to much for the comfort of your prisoners. And considering that you're tossing them into a bag of holding, you probably don't.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I am what I think would be a reasonably sized D&D Fighter, 6ft-2in, 215 pounds. A 48-inch rope cannot fit around my shoulders but I can maneuver into it arm by arm. With any kind of heavy armor I would say impossible. So, maybe you can do it for some Medium-sized creatures, but not all and not with heavy armor. I would also estimate it to take about 2 full round actions and if I were unconscious it would take you at least 1 full minute to pull it over me, perhaps half that with someone strong enough to lift my upper body. You could start at the feet, but you need one arm up and one down to minimize the circumference of my shoulder area (1 arm width + chest is just enough, 2 arm widths cannot fit).

I would also say that you pretty much need to strip the body of equipment, especially things like quivers full of arrows and sheathes. Backpacks are also obvious because I doubt any Medium-size creature would fit into a bag of holding opening while wearing a backpack.

 

[Pagan priest]

True, but factor in the increased respiration caused by being shut in a small hole with no way of getting out and the air will last a whole lot less time.

Come to think of it, the only things I've ever seen put into portable holes, etc., were inanimate, already dead or wearing neckalaces of adaptation.

Does anyone use these things to transport people/livestock?

A long time ago (1st edition) I had a thief that was trying to save someone's life as a large group of archers was getting close and we were stuck on the end of a pier with no boat. I stuffed him inside my (greatly oversized) BoH and dove into the river.

I have also gamed with a different group that regularly gave out 50' x 50' x 50' bags of holding. Yes, you needed a ladder to get anything out of your bag. One character rigged up a pole structure to hold it open and would drive a buckboard inside, unhitch the horses, take them out and then close up the bag. Of course, this group somehow got the idea that anything inside a closed BoH died instantly and the interior of the bag was at 0 degrees absolute while the bag was closed.

 

[Dross]

There was no change in this regard from 3.0 to 3.5. Studying this has been something of a pastime for me.

I'll acceed to your greater knowledge in this