Bags of Holding inside Mord's Mansion: Result?

[taliesin15]

Werk just stated on the Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion thread that taking a Bag of Holding inside one might be dangerous because of the MMM's "extradimensionality"--can someone suggest a likely result? Is there text on this? And wouldn't taking such bags on other extradimensional journeys (Plane Shift? Teleport? Crossing the Rainbow Bridge?) likewise cause some sort of similar rapture-rupture?

 

[Pielorinho]

I see things on a continuum from "totally cheesy" to "total pain in the butt." "Totally cheesy" consists of popping your friends into the portable hole before you teleport in order to get more juice out of the spell. "Total pain in the butt" consists of having to empty out your portable hole every time you go into a MMM. I therefore interpret the rules to forbid the totally cheesy and to avoid the total pain in the butt.

On the other hand, spells like Teleport have the decidedly non-heroic effect of making players sit around for long minutes discussing their transportation options and trying to figure out how they can get everyone to the Site of Fun. I wish the rules didn't have this effect, that there were some way to adjudicate a spell like teleport such that it would just get the whole dang party there already without being abusable by some tweaker.

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

INcidentally, here's the text of Bag of Holding:

Bag of Holding: This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size. The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions. Regardless of what is put into the bag, it weighs a fixed amount. This weight, and the limits in weight and volume of the bag’s contents, depend on the bag’s type, as shown on the table below.

Bag Bag
Weight Contents
Weight Limit Contents
Volume Limit Market
Price
Type I 15 lb. 250 lb. 30 cu. ft. 2,500 gp
Type II 25 lb. 500 lb. 70 cu. ft. 5,000 gp
Type III 35 lb. 1,000 lb. 150 cu. ft. 7,400 gp
Type IV 60 lb. 1,500 lb. 250 cu. ft. 10,000 gp

If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever. If a bag of holding is turned inside out, its contents spill out, unharmed, but the bag must be put right before it can be used again. If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate. Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move action—unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action.

If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.

Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest.

Nothing in here indicates to me that there would be any deleterious effects; are you looking elsewhere?

Daniel

 

[Artoomis]

Rope Trick
...

Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.

 

[MarkB]

Rope Trick
...

Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.

Subsequent FAQ and Rules of the Game advice seems to be to ignore that note, and not worry about the extradimensionality unless Bags of Holding, Portable Holes and possibly Handy Haversacks are interacting directly with each other.

 

[javcs]

With rope trick, it is possible that they mean if the first extradimensional spell effect ends while you're in a second (from that extradimensional space) you could get stuck (without some form of planar travel) .. or the second extradimensional spell effect collapses in on itself because it no longer has an entry/exit.
But why would you cast another extradimensional space creating spell while you're in a previous spell's effect?

Either that or, as I think I said in the bag of holding thread, you could houserule that there's a chance you attract the attention of some Astral/Ethereal/Shadow/etc plane denizen in the area, that being the 'hazard' spoken of in Rope Trick.

 

[Question]

I wouldnt advise making there be any dangerous effects. It creates a lot of problems.

Player : "Okay we rest in the mansion tonight."

DM : *rolls* "Space time continuum rip because you brought a bag of holding inside. Everyone ends up in the far realm. Roll up new characters."

Theres also the annoying problem of what you are going to do with a bag of holding full of valuable stuff. What, leave it outside the mansion for people to take?

 

[Infiniti2000]

DM : *rolls* "Space time continuum rip because you brought a bag of holding inside. Everyone ends up in the far realm. Roll up new characters."

Player: "Whaaa?? That sounds like a grand adventure! I don't wanna roll up a new character!"

 

[green slime]

I see things on a continuum from "totally cheesy" to "total pain in the butt." "Totally cheesy" consists of popping your friends into the portable hole before you teleport in order to get more juice out of the spell. "Total pain in the butt" consists of having to empty out your portable hole every time you go into a MMM. I therefore interpret the rules to forbid the totally cheesy and to avoid the total pain in the butt.

On the other hand, spells like Teleport have the decidedly non-heroic effect of making players sit around for long minutes discussing their transportation options and trying to figure out how they can get everyone to the Site of Fun. I wish the rules didn't have this effect, that there were some way to adjudicate a spell like teleport such that it would just get the whole dang party there already without being abusable by some tweaker.

Daniel

I don't see having everyone leap into the portable hole/bag of holding/other extradimensional space you can carry for easier teleportation as being "totally cheesy". But that maybe because I enjoyed the description of similar incidents given in Hugh Cook's "The Wizards and the Warriors".

I just don't see it as abuse. I think the weight/persons limit on teleport is completely bizarre, given the nature of the game (4+ characters with followers and mounts, need to get somewhere a few hundred miles away fast). I'd be far, far happier with more limited range, which would mean other methods of travel would remain valid for far longer, especially transoceanic voyages but including the now almost forgotten Shadow Walk.

The thing is, the "party" develops counter-strategies versus walking into MMM with a PH or two. It makes the game interesting, it provides a possibility for a mishap with unidentified treasure. I don't see the problem.

 

[green slime]

Player: "Whaaa?? That sounds like a grand adventure! I don't wanna roll up a new character!"

Exactly! I afraid I'm not seeing the problem here...