Baiting your players

[DonTadow]

Do any of you bait players? Do you think baiting players is fair?

Here's the situation. I've done this a lot in my current campaign, but have never made it look as obvious as I did last night.

The entire session is built around a town and a puzzle. The party receives a scroll of jump, a scroll of haste, and a scroll of fly. They have one clue that says haste makes waste, and another clue that says waist not. They reach an area with a sign that says go faster, run faster, speed up. They get to the sign and they ponder what the sign means. I remind them that they hve a scroll of haste (the bait). There's some discussion and someone rationalizes "well the dm told us we have a scroll of haste we must have to use it, despite the fact that several party members brought up that it would be wasting the scroll as their spot, listen and search checks received nothing. They used the haste and came to a part later in the adventure where they needed the haste to make some beavers build the damn faster. They finished the adventure and received only partial treasure for not recovering all of the stones.

Today, I got an email from two of the players (a married couple) saying how they were upset that they were baited to use the scroll and thinks i should provide all of the treasure. I explained that it wasn't the first time I"ve thrown bait out there and they've taken it, but it was the first time that the results of taking the bait and not roleplaying were pretty obvious.

Was I wrong for throwing out bait?

I ask again

Do any of you bait players? Do you think baiting players is fair?

 

[Vargo]

I think you did cross the line - it was fine that there was a sign there, but reminding the party that they had the scroll is a little too meta for my taste.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

I think you did cross the line - it was fine that there was a sign there, but reminding the party that they had the scroll is a little too meta for my taste.

I agree. I wouldn't have reminded them of the scroll, its their job to think of things like that.

I also think that if I were playing in a game where that happened, I'd be wary just at the signs. After all, the players were warned with a clue previously that said "Haste makes Waste."
When I read your post my first thought at the sign was that this was a trick to get the PCs to waste the scroll.

So, although I don't think you should have reminded them of the scroll, I don't have any pitty for them either.

Do any of you bait players? Do you think baiting players is fair?

Yeah, I think its fair. I try to mislead them and fool them all the time. I love it when they look at me like they are trying to read my body language or read between the lines of my wording as they try to figure out what is going on in the game. I just keep a poker face and tell them the facts as their characters see them.

 

[painandgreed]

If you're going to let the party screw themselves over, you have to be careful not to say anything and let them do it all by themselves. Reminding them out of game they have something, despite an obvious trap, is not really kosher. If you want to bait players, it's best to do it in character so you don't end up with these "misundestandings".

 

[Crothian]

Ya, I bait the players all the time, but through NPCs and other in game ways.

 

[Oryan77]

That's bordering on the DM vs PC style of play. As a player, that comes across as, "The DM wanted us to screw ourselves" rather than, "An NPC wanted us to screw ourselves". You reminded them about an object in hopes that they'd do exactly what you wanted...mess up. Rather than allowing them to think about it themselves & remember about the scroll on their own, or use any skill checks to see if someone is trying to bluff them; you influenced them in a way that most everyone would take as helpful DM intervention when you did it out-of-game. Doing that loses trust between you & your players, which turns the game into a DM vs PC game.

 

[BWP]

Was I wrong for throwing out bait?

I agree with the other comments that you overstepped the mark here, but that certainly doesn't entitle the players to get the loot they lost. You didn't force them to do the wrong thing.

Do any of you bait players? Do you think baiting players is fair?

I generally leave players to work out their own options, but sometimes they just become hopelessly muddled or confused; in such cases I'll step in and outline their various options, but I'll try not to suggest that any one of those options is obviously superior to any of the others (or I'll point out the various consequences). E.G., "you could flee from the area, but then you won't get any treasure; or you could enter the cave and fight the ogre, but if you lose you're dead."

 

[DonTadow]

I think you did cross the line - it was fine that there was a sign there, but reminding the party that they had the scroll is a little too meta for my taste.

To clarify and put the situation into perspective , the players had paused for 20 minutes real time trying to figure out what to make of the signs. They asked several times how they'd be able to go faster, to which i had the wizard make an intelligence role. The player rolled a 15 in which i informed that player that he remembered thatanother player had picked up a scroll out of the trashcan. I like to use intelligence rolls when players are wasting time.

He also remembered what the two clues said. It was the second puzzle in a row that I informed them of the clues. The first one they almost failed until I reminded them (intelligence roll) and even then they were about to fail it until I had the npc bird blatently tell them he was the wrong npc to receive the item.

In the puzzle after this one, they ignored the clue as well and failed the next task. (only making 5 out of the 7 tasks. in all).

 

[frankthedm]

Do any of you bait players? Do you think baiting players is fair?

50% of my group requires no effort to bait, making it as unfair as a canned hunt [shooting caged game].

But is not baiting players giving them just what they want? The hook is just a bit of garnish...

What you descibe was not baiting, it was a reminder for those players who may have forgotton they had picked it up. A person confronted with such a puzzle would resonable link the object with the circumstance.

Tell the ettin to deal with with they got or not come back.

 

[DonTadow]

50% of my group requires no effort to bait, making it as unfair as a canned hunt [shooting caged game].

But is not baiting players giving them just what they want? The hook is just a bit of garnish...

What you descibe was not baiting, it was a reminder for those players who may have forgotton they had picked it up. A person confronted with such a puzzle would resonable link the object with the circumstance.

Tell the ettin to deal with with they got or not come back.

SAd thing is the players got the most important object in the treasure. (a clear map and details on how to get the item that they've been seeking for 4 months of game sessions) Plus they just looteda 12th level sorcerors tower and captured it claiming all of the loot inside.