Balance of +0 LA races with bonuses to spellcasting stats.

[nikolai]

I could do with everyone's opinion of this.

What do you think about the balance of PC races with a +0 Level Adjustment, which have bonuses to statistics related to spellcasting (Wis, Int, Cha). There aren't any of these as "official" choices in the PHB, but they have been brought in as options subsequently. I'm concerned that if these are allowed then the only sensible spellcaster build is to take a race which gives you a bonus to your mental statistics, so your spells get more bang.

Thoughts?

 

[Mekabar]

In my opinion the most "sensible" spellcaster build is the one that is the most fun playing to you. This does not necessarily mean that it has to be the most powerful or efficient one. If you'd like to play a Sun Elf Wizard, go for it, otherwise don't take one just for the +2 Int score.

 

[Blue]

The line of distinction for me comes when you apply these sentences:

The [race] makes a good [class]
vs.
The [class] should be [race]

The first shows a race that has some potential in an area. The latter shows that one race out does others for a particular class and becomes the "only logical choice". It like if you play in the forgotten realms, there are loads of sun elf wizards, because sun elves give +2 Int. If they didn't have -2 Con (a bane of wizards) they be the only classs, as it is huamns with their free feat are still in there, but not as common.

So I'd be very careful with races that give bonus to spellcating stats to make sure that they don't become the defacto race for a particular class. Because adding an option like that actually decreases the (logical) choices to the players.

Cheers,
=Blue

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I could do with everyone's opinion of this.

What do you think about the balance of PC races with a +0 Level Adjustment, which have bonuses to statistics related to spellcasting (Wis, Int, Cha). There aren't any of these as "official" choices in the PHB, but they have been brought in as options subsequently. I'm concerned that if these are allowed then the only sensible spellcaster build is to take a race which gives you a bonus to your mental statistics, so your spells get more bang.

Thoughts?

If you're uncomfortable with it, don't allow it. If you have players already starting with a 21 Int for wizards, don't allow it.

 

[Lobo Lurker]

Just an interesting observation here. In Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed, there are three races with bonuses to spellcasting classes... but due to the extra ceremonial feat that all players get at first level, and the fact that 1/2 of the ceremonial feats deal with spellcasters, I don't really feel that its a distict advantage or disadvantage to playing a Loresong Faen/Mojh Magister or a Verrik Greenbond.

But... in regular DnD I completely agree with the above post. If elves had a charisma bonus, almost every one of them would be a bard or sorceror. I think that the base races don't have mental ability adjustments for just this purpose... if they did, they'd become the defacto choice for a particular class. Just like if the 1/2 orc had +2 Str & Cha it'd be the defacto fighter/paladin/ranger (maybe). And if Dwarves didn't have a charisma penalty, I'm sure you'd see a LOT more Dwarven bards and sorcerors.

 

[Li Shenron]

Thoughts?

I think they are perfectly viable. If one can start at lv1 as a melee warrior with Str 20 or as an archer with Dex 20, I don't see why starting as a Wiz with Int 20 or Sor with Cha 20 should be forbidden.

If you think about it, it's not that necessary to have such a high primary stat as a caster. What you get is one more 1st level spell per day and +1 spell DC. Not bad indeed, but not more than a warrior getting +1 attack and +1 or +1.5 damage on every single attack.

As a matter of fact, if it wasn't for the fact that the primary stat limits the MAX SPELL LEVEL you can cast, having a low primary stat would not make a terrible spellcaster. A wizard with low Int would not be a good offensive wizard, but could cast spells with no saves just as well.

 

[Darkness]

As a matter of fact, if it wasn't for the fact that the primary stat limits the MAX SPELL LEVEL you can cast, having a low primary stat would not make a terrible spellcaster. A wizard with low Int would not be a good offensive wizard, but could cast spells with no saves just as well.

Which is how I build many Clr/Wizs and such. One casting ability score as high as possible, with the other at around the minimum required for max spell level at that level (or higher, if possible, of course).

Of course, if you don't mind the additional hit to spell progression, a Sor/Shugenja/Mystic Theurge needs only one spellcasting stat.

 

[CRGreathouse]

My players know that I don't allow ECL +0 races (that is, races without LA or racial HD) with bonuses to mental ability scores. I'm quite happy to allow races with such bonuses, and in fact I have at least one race with fairly large mental bonuses (+4 Int, +2 Cha), but they all have base ECL > 0.

 

[Zephyrus]

Consider perhaps this approach....

The race gains 'Spellcasting Prodigy' as a bonus feat due to their race (or perhaps define the ability similar so that they can take the Feat in addition to the racial quality, thus being truely a prodigy among their own kind). If they character is not of a spellcasting class they may cast as a spell-like ability 3 spells similar to Gnomes. The spell-like abilities are lost if they take up a class of serious magical study (Wiz/Sor/Clr/Drd/Brd) but is not lost with lesser caster types (such as Ranger & Paladin or P-Classes who's magic cap's out at 4th level like them). In this way you've got a 'magically attuned' race that doesnt provide direct mental stat benefits but does grant them advantages in magical studies.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

There has been a recent thread on the topic of spellcasting stats vs. Str.

I think you have to be very careful with bonuses to spellcasting stats. Specialized spellcasters can more easily hide weak stats that can other classes.