Level Up (A5E) Balanced way to restore iconic class abilities.

[Chaltab]

While the class options have been greatly expanded in A5E, this sometimes comes at the expense of iconic class abilities.Sometimes these are very strong in their own right but perhaps aren't the most appealing trade offs. Has anyone come up with a balanced way to grant features like Action Surge and Magical Secrets to the A5E class chassis?

 

[Distracted DM]

My first thought is to challenge the assumption that these are iconic features for these classes, and say that they don't need to be reproduced in A5E but that's not in aid of the question!

To answer: Bard's Loremaster archetype gives something similar but not the same... but if you want to give them something like Magical Secrets, then you need to take something away. Removing hymns effectively neuters the big A5E part of the class.
Really, and this'll probably go for fighter too, IMO they gained a lot more than they lost going from 5e to A5E. But you could scale back the potency of the A5E features for the bard, if you need to give them magical secrets. Make Hymns cost double the bardic inspiration that they do now, or kill some of their skill bonuses.

For fighter... action surge, hm. Make it a fighter-only maneuver that costs all of their exertion, and/or make it so that they can't regain exertion until after a long rest once it's used? Otherwise, maybe trade the maneuver specialization feature for it?

Wanting to have your 5E cake and also eat the A5E features too, while trying to call it balanced- that's a tough nut to crack.

 

[Anselm]

I'd say a magic item or a feat for both would be better than adding them to the base class. That gives you a little flexibility over when the character receives them and can put level requirements on them as well. Both the mentioned features are very powerful as noted above so I'm not sure how to balance them off the top of my head.

 

[Corinnguard]

For fighter... action surge, hm. Make it a fighter-only maneuver that costs all of their exertion, and/or make it so that they can't regain exertion until after a long rest once it's used? Otherwise, maybe trade the maneuver specialization feature for it?

Hmm...if Action Surge was remade into a fighter-only combat maneuver, I would have it where a fighter seeks out an organization that can teach them it. And it would be a part of a new combat tradition that includes Second Wind as a stance. So, only a few A5e fighters would be able to perform it and gain the benefit of an additional action.

 

[Anonymous3]

Action Surge was the first thing I looked for in A5e and was initially bummed that it wasn't there.
However, as I became more familiar with the Combat Maneuvers and Traditions and the various combinations that are available I think Action Surge, purely from an attack angle, can be replicated and in some cases replicated beyond once per combat. If you added Action Surge to the these existing combinations you may find something that is completely "game breaking".

I think if you're trying to recreate Action Surge and similar features they should be tied to features with a class (ie., Combat Traditions) and not class level to stop level dipping. Having played a 5e Sorcerer with Quicken and Action Surge this can be really powerful and wasn't appreciated at the table. Action Surge on my fighter was celebrated.

 

[Chaltab]

I would word it to say that it cannot be used on the same turn as a combat maneuver or spell.

 

[Morrus]

Action Surge comes up a lot. It’s clear that a lot of people are attached to it. But we removed it for a reason, and combat maneuvers more than make up for it. If you really need action surge for your character the WotC classes are compatible—not as much fun, but they’re compatible.

 

[lichmaster]

Action Surge comes up a lot. It’s clear that a lot of people are attached to it. But we removed it for a reason, and combat maneuvers more than make up for it. If you really need action surge for your character the WotC classes are compatible—not as much fun, but they’re compatible.

I was initially surprised (not in a favorable way) by its removal, but I have to say that it really was for the best. Action Surge is not iconic at all IMO, it was introduced in 5e and is popular only for the crazy broken combos it allowed, so I'm happy it's gone. And for anyone who wants it, there's always the possibility of using o5e/o5.5e fighter

 

[Chaltab]

Seriously? I don't need to be told I can let them play the old version of a class.