Balancing act - giving rogues d8 hit die

[CombatWombat51]

I previously had a similar idea for swashbucklers. Give them a d8, drop their skill points to 6/level, give them all martial weapons (at least swords), and make it so that flanking doesn't allow sneak attacks. Also throw in Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat at first level, and we're all set!

 

[der_kluge]

I'm with Crothian on this one.

6 Skill points per level. That would balance it out, IMHO.

 

[wocky]

I'm all for multiclassing with fighter in each other level.

Other than that, you could slow the sneak attack progression a bit... I don't think swashbucklers should be sneak-attacking as much as your usual rogue.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I don't think Swashbucklers should be sneak attacking at all

Swashbucklers (in my mind, I don't know what image you have in your mind) are experts at daring maneuvres and scathing wit, not at puncturing someone's kidney.

AR

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Personally I consider rogue to be an overpowered class already, so you'd have to lose A LOT to justify actually giving it even more. 2 or more skill points, move evasion up to a higher level and remove the exclusive nature of trapfinding. (because if a rogue can do the fighters job without multiclassing, why leave her with an exclusive class lock on another job?)

but I'm a known anti-rogue subversive.

Kahuna Burger

 

[SylverFlame]

Actually Kahuna, I like your idea. The reduced skill points per level makes a lot of sense, and trapfinding should be opened up. I mean, a ranger who can't find a falling log trap in the woods? Not much of a wilderness scout in my mind...

Bumping evasion, however, is one thing I don't know about. If you are using the alt for a Swashbuckler, than keep evasion where it is. The character will be jumping around in light armours (if any) and it just feels right to keep the whole "ha ha, you missed!" scenario in there. Besides, evasion doesn't just have to be spells, it can also affect things like the reflex save to dodge the chandalier that your nemesis cut loose to drop on you.

I'm not, however, suggesting that evasion should replace AC. Just that in certain situations where a reflex save is required than it can be used instead.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

eh.

I've never understood the need to heavily modify classes or make up entirely new classes to get specific archetypes. A rogue/fighter is the answer. You have more HP, more BAB, less sneak attack dice, and less skill points. How can you argue with that?

EDIT:

because if a rogue can do the fighters job without multiclassing, why leave her with an exclusive class lock on another job?

I almost spit my drink out when I went back and read this. How do you propose a rogue can "do the fighter's job" by having less AC and much less HP? I would really like to know, because that is one of the craziest things I have ever heard. I can't even fathom it.

 

[Erekose]

The title pretty much says it all. So what would be so unbalancing about giving the rogue class a d8 hit die?

If it is unbalancing how would you suggest it could be balanced? What would the rogue have to give up?

I think it's interesting how this thread was started to answer a specific question and just how few replies actually address that question.

Personally I'd go with Nifft's suggestion and call sneak attack something esle like lightning thrust.

 

[kreynolds]

I prefer Crothian's idea as well. I think lowering SA damage to a d4 is too much. Increasing the average hit points per level by 1 isn't a big deal. In fact, it's just under the value of a feat, as Improved Toughness grants more than that. If you really wanted to balance it out by reducing sneak attack though, just hack off the first or last step, thereby limiting the rogue to a total SA of +9d6. Personally, if I was to use SA to balance it out, I would move the first step to 2nd-level and drop the last step.

 

[Stalker0]

I almost spit my drink out when I went back and read this. How do you propose a rogue can "do the fighter's job" by having less AC and much less HP? I would really like to know, because that is one of the craziest things I have ever heard. I can't even fathom it.

He's basically saying that in a fight a rogue can still fight. And with SA, can do quite well. For magical traps and traps upon 20 DC, a fighter can't do ANYTHING, only a rogue can find these.

So a rogue can be a "half-fighter" but a fighter can never be a half-rogue.