Balancing/Creating Races (Using Green Ronin's APM) [Updated 4/18/08]

[Angel Tarragon]

Need help with figuring if these races are balanced against each other:


Humans

• +2 to any one ability score
• Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Human base land speed is 30 feet.
• 2 extra feats at 1st level
• 1 extra talent at 1st level. Arcana Evolved/Iron Heroes
• 8 extra skill points at 1st level and 2 extra skill point at each additional level.
• Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
• Favored Class: Any

Elves

• +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Elf base land speed is 30 feet. Elf base swim speed is 30 feet.
• Elves can cast detect magic as a spell-like ability at will; caster level is equal to half hit dice.
• Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +3 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• Since magic is an integral part of the elven way of life, Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft are always treated as class skills. Additionally, the elf gains a +2 racial bonus with these skills.
• Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.
• +3 racial bonus on Listen, Search, Spot and Swim checks. An elf that merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
• Favored Class: Wizard or Sorcerer.

Half-Elves

• +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution
• Medium: As Medium creatures, half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Half-elf base land speed is 30 feet. Half-Elf base swim speed is 20 feet.
• Half-elves due breed true, but are also born from the unison of a male human and a female elf.
• Half-Elves can cast detect magic as a spell-like ability at will; caster level is equal to half hit dice.
• Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.
• Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• Since magic is an integral part of the elven way of life, Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft are always treated as class skills.
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, Spot and Swim checks.
• Divided Ancestry: Due to their mixed blood and dealing with elves and humans in their community Half-Elves gain a +2 racial bonus on all Diplomacy & Sense Motive checks.
• Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
• Favored Classes: Any

Quarter-Elves

• +2 Intelligence OR Charisma
• Medium: As Medium creatures, quarter-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Quarter-Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
• Quarter-Elves can cast detect magic as a spell-like ability three times per day; caster level is equal to half hit dice.
• +2 racial saving throw bonus against magic sleep effects.
• +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• +1 racial bonus on Search and Spot checks.
• 1 extra feat or talent at 1st level. Arcana Evolved/Iron Heroes
• 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
• Human & Elf Blood: For all effects related to race, quarter-elves are considered as a human and an elf
• Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
• Favored Classes: Any

Saelvhik

• +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, +4 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
• Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Saelvhik base land speed is 30 feet.
• Clawed: Whene it comes right down to unarmed combat, saelvhik have a leg up. They have retractable claws that allows them to deal lethal damage to their opponents. Due to saelvhik having Improved Natural Attack (Claw) as a racial bonus feat, their claw attacks deal 1d6 lethal damage.
• Dauntless: Sealvhik gain Dauntless (combination Endurance & Toughness for my homebrew) as a bonus feat.
• Deep Breath: Due to the saelvhiks' large frame, they have developed large lungs. Due to this, all saelvhik are able to hold their breath for a number of rounds equal to their Constitution score times 3.
• Enligtened: Sealvhik are strong of body and of mind. Their intuitive nature has allowed them to master their emotions. Due to this enlighthened state saelvhik are immune to compulsion effects and also have +4 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• Heart of the Wild: Sealvhik despise organized civilization and rebuke it. They are one with nature and the land. Saelvhik gain Knowledge (Nature) and Survival as racial skills. These skills are always treated as class skills regardless of which classes they advance in. In addition they gain a +2 racial bonus to all checks with these skills. If a saelvhik has no choice but to enter any village larger than a thorp, it takes a -4 penalty on all interaction checks (Diplomacy, Sense Motive, etc..)
• Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• Powerful Build: Saelvhik have very dense musculature that lets them function in many ways as if they are one size category larger.
• Scent: Saelvhik have the Scent extraordinary ability.
• Thick Skinned: Saelvhik have very thick skin that grants them a +2 natural armor adjustment.
• Tribal Training: When saelvhik are old enough to handle weapons, they are trained by the rest of their tribe in the use of ranged weapons. All sealvhik have Simple Weapon Proficiency for the javelin and shortspear. They also have Martial Weapon Proficiency for the longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow).
• Automatic Language: Common & Saelvhik. Bonus Languages: Sylvan & any other PC languages.
• Favored Class: Fighter and Cleric
• Level Adjustment: +1

4/17/08 EDIT:
Elves: +10 Swim Speed
Half-Elves: Wpn Prof (as standard elf) & Divided Ancestry
Quarter-Elves: +2 Int OR Cha & +1 vs. Sleep and Enchantment bumped up to +2

4/18/08 EDIT:
Added the Saelvhik (bearfolk)

[sblock=Showing My Math]

Human				88

	+2			8
	2 Feats/1 talent	60
	Skill Bonuses		20


Elf				88

	+4, -2			8
	Detect Magic		25
	Immune to Sleep		6
	+3 vs. enchantment	4.5
	Low-light vision	5
	Racial Skills		3*
	+2 to 2 skills		6
	+3 to 4 skills		18
	Wpn Prof		6
	Swim spd as land spd	6
	Two Favored Classes	.5


Half-Elf			66

	+2, -2			0
	Detect Magic		25
	Immune to Sleep		6
	Low-light vision	5
	Racial Skills		3*
	+2 to 4 skills		12
NEW	Wpn Prof		6
	Swim at 2/3 land spd	3
NEW	+2 Diplo/Sns Mtv	6


Quarter-Elf			65.5

NEW	+2			8
	Detect Magic 3/Day	7.5
Upgrade	+2 vs. Sleep		3.5
Upgrade	+2 vs. Enchantemnt	3.5
	+1 to 2 skills		3
	1 talent or feat	20
	Skill Bonuses		10
	Human Blooded		0
	Elf Blooded		10

Saelvhik			122
	
	Powerful Build		20
	Low-light vision	5
	Scent			10
	+2 natural armor bonus	8
	Ability Bonuses		32
	Natural Attack (Claw)	3
	INA (Claw)		8
	Dauntless		8
	Racial Skills		3
	  KN: Nature & Survival
	Skill Bonus +2		6
	  KN: Nature & Survival
	Civ social penalty	-3
	Immune to Cumpulsion	6
	+4 vs. enchantment 	6
	Wpn Prof		5
	  Javelin/Shortspear
	  Shortbow & Comp
	  Longbow & Comp
	Hold Breath x3	5


* 1.5 for each skill

[/sblock]

 

[brehobit]

Isn't half-elf strictly weaker than elf?

Humans and elves look fairly close, and the quarter elf looks somewhat weaker than either.

Mark

 

[Kisanji Arael]

This is only going to lead to racism, I hope you know. "You're going to marry a human? I forbid it! I won't have my grandchildren growing up with an inferior stat array, and I'm sure his parents agree."

Human and elf are balanced. Human is customization galore; elf is magic focused.

There is... no reason to be a half-elf. The only "perk" they got from their human father is in linguistics, in which they inherited an enhanced selection but no enhanced capability. My recommendation would be to give them their choice of either 3 martial weapons or one exotic weapon, and some social bonuses from having interacted in two societies. That... might make it balanced... maybe.

Quarter elves, in my opinion, seem a bit stronger than the half-variety, but then again, I also like 1% milk over 2%. But not much. I would say this race needs at least a "+1 to either intelligence or charisma" to keep the established feel (as it is, even if the mother drops 2 points in Int, and the father gets it without having to pick.... the child still gets his genes from Uncle Leroy). I do like the "human and elf blood," though. That's a nice touch.

Out of curiosity, are these the only races in your world?

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Out of curiosity, are these the only races in your world?

Nope. I've got a slew more that I'm working on. And thanks for the advice, I'll take it under consideration.

 

[Bob the Destroyer]

Hi,

I agree with brehobit that the Half-elf and Quarter-elf are strictly weaker than the Human and Elf.

I would probably give the Half-elves four bonus skill points at first level and one every following level and give the Quarter-elves another feat at first level to balance them against the Humans and Elves.

 

[Felnar]

only elves have a favored class listed (should i assume "Any"?)

human is glaringly better than quarter-elf

 

[Angel Tarragon]

bump for updates

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Added the Saelvhik

 

[Arkhandus]

Elves

• +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Elf base land speed is 30 feet. Elf base swim speed is 30 feet.
• Elves can cast detect magic as a spell-like ability at will; caster level is equal to half hit dice.
• Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +3 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• Since magic is an integral part of the elven way of life, Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft are always treated as class skills. Additionally, the elf gains a +2 racial bonus with these skills.
• Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.
• +3 racial bonus on Listen, Search, Spot and Swim checks. An elf that merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
• Favored Class: Wizard or Sorcerer.

See my notes below regarding the half-elf, since they're so similar. The elf is a bit stronger than a human, though. I'd probably reduce the skill bonuses and save bonus a bit to compensate. That'd still leave them a bit stronger, but I'm not really sure what could be taken away without also removing the same thing from half-elves or quarter-elves.

Half-Elves

• +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution
• Medium: As Medium creatures, half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Half-elf base land speed is 30 feet. Half-Elf base swim speed is 20 feet.
• Half-Elves can cast detect magic as a spell-like ability at will; caster level is equal to half hit dice.
• Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.
• Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• Since magic is an integral part of the elven way of life, Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft are always treated as class skills.
• +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, Spot and Swim checks.
• Divided Ancestry: Due to their mixed blood and dealing with elves and humans in their community Half-Elves gain a +2 racial bonus on all Diplomacy & Sense Motive checks.
• Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
• Favored Classes: Any

Hrm. Worse than a human, ability-score-wise. Detect Magic ability should at least include a "to a minimum caster level of 1" clause. Sleep/enchantment benefit is better than a feat but probably not quite worth 2 feats (keep in mind that all or nearly all magical sleep effects are enchantments, so the benefits kinda overlap). The bonus feats are nice, but only 1 or 2 of them are likely to see actual use, possibly none, depending on the individual's class. Low-light is probably like a feat in usefulness. The extra class skills are almost worth a feat, but many half-elves are liable to be wizards or something, who already get those skills. The skill bonuses are three feats' worth.

So...all in all it's equivalent to a human's bonus feats and extra talent, and their extra skill points.....but their ability score modifiers probably make them a bit inferior to humans for most, if not all, purposes. Still solid and good for rogues, wizards, and some bards or rangers, but inferior to humans overall and probably a bit less effective in the aforementioned roles. Probably deserving a choice between +2 Int or +2 Cha, and they should at least get 1 bonus feat like a human.

Oh, by the way. Per the Monster Manual rules, any race with a natural swim speed automatically gets a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks, and doesn't need to make those checks for normal swimming, only difficult stuff like hazards.

Quarter-Elves

• +2 Intelligence OR Charisma
• Medium: As Medium creatures, quarter-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Quarter-Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
• Quarter-Elves can cast detect magic as a spell-like ability three times per day; caster level is equal to half hit dice.
• +2 racial saving throw bonus against magic sleep effects.
• +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• +1 racial bonus on Search and Spot checks.
• 1 extra feat or talent at 1st level. Arcana Evolved/Iron Heroes
• 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
• Human & Elf Blood: For all effects related to race, quarter-elves are considered as a human and an elf
• Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
• Favored Classes: Any

These quarter-elves are definitely weaker than humans. Their save bonuses are worth no more than 1 feat (Iron Will would provide the same benefit and more, since Enchantments are always Will save effects), and that only because they would stack with Iron Will if the individual took that feat at some point. The Search/Spot bonus and Human/Elf Blood are worth roughly 1 feat as well, combined. The Detect Magic ability doesn't quite make up for the reduced flexibility of their racial ability score bonus, and also, you should include some extra tidbit like "to a minimum caster level of 1" so that the ability is actually useable at 1st-level. They also lack the greater number of skill points that a human gets.

Overall, I'd rate them as roughly 2 feats behind a human in ability, aside from the more disparate spread of their racial benefits (kind of good magic users, but fewer feats and skill points, slightly effective rogues, and nothing more).

Humans

• +2 to any one ability score
• Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Human base land speed is 30 feet.
• 2 extra feats at 1st level
• 1 extra talent at 1st level. Arcana Evolved/Iron Heroes
• 8 extra skill points at 1st level and 2 extra skill point at each additional level.
• Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
• Favored Class: Any

Humans are fine, they're the baseline anyhow. It's definitely on the high end of an LA +0, probably worth an LA +1, but since humans are the baseline, it doesn't matter much. At least it's not focused power, so it shouldn't make them much better than any CR 1 opponent they might face, so it shouldn't mess up the standard CR system.

 

[skelso]

Cool race builds. Amazingly similar to the Pathfinder Alpha races, but yours precede them by several months, which is kinda weird.

My only constructive comment is that the Saelvhik seem incredibly powerful for only a +1 LA. I realize these races are all more powerful than standard races, but these guys get awesome stat boosts, Powerful Build, Endurance, Toughness, Natural Armor, Natural Attacks and the Scent ability plus a bunch of other goodies more in line with the abilities the other races get.

Then again, with races this modded, maybe the classes are also similarly beefed up and giving up a level of class is really giving up a lot.