Balancing question about monks unarmed attacks

[Darklone]

About multiclassed monks...

AFAIK, you only get as many unarmed attacks as your monk BAB gives you. Example:

Monk lvl6 has unarmed BAB +4/+1, armed BAB+4. If this monk is multiclassed with a fighter2, he has unarmed BAB as well as armed BAB+6/+1, right?

How unbalancing would it be to give a monk who fights unarmed the full number of attacks due to his unarmed BAB progression, even if he is multiclassed? Or did I get the whole ruling wrong?

 

[kreynolds]

Monk lvl6 has unarmed BAB +4/+1, armed BAB+4. If this monk is multiclassed with a fighter2, he has unarmed BAB as well as armed BAB+6/+1, right?

Sort of. A mutliclassed Monk 6/Fighter 2 would have two different sets of base attack bonuses. His unarmed base attack bonus as a Monk would be +6/+3, while his unarmed or armed base attack bonus as a Fighter would be +6/+1. Basically, you have to choose which one you're going to use. If the multiclassed monk/fighter is going to fight unarmed, obviously he would be better off to use his Monk base attack bonus (+6/+3). If the multiclassed monk/fighter wanted to attack with a sword, he would have to use the other base attack bonus (+6/+1).

 

[Darklone]

ugh, that means a monk6/ftr3 would have unarmed attacks +7/+4/+1, right? He essentially will hit better unarmed than the standard monk, but will have less monk abilities? That's the way I like it.

 

[SableWyvern]

Nope Kreynolds, have to disagree.

PHB p55 Base Attack Bonus
For a multiclass monk fighting unarmed, the character must either use the additional attacks given for her monk levels (only) or the additional attacks that are standard for her combined base attack bonus, but not both.

(my emphasis)

OK, your Monk6/Fighter3.

His primary attack is +7 (+4 for Monk, +3 for fighter).

When fighting unarmed, she can take an additional attack at +2 (standard for her combined BAB of +7).
ALTERNATELY
When fighting unarmed, she can take an additional attack at +1 (standard for her monk levels only BAB of +4).


OR, THE EXAMPLE OUT OF THE PHB

Monk10/Wizard7

Primary BAB is +10 (+7 for monk, +3 for Wiz)

Additional attack at +5 (standard for combined bab of +10)
ALTERNATELY
Additional attacks at +3 and +1 (standard for a level 10 monk bab of +7).

 

[Plane Sailing]

Unfortunately Sablewyvern has the right of it here.

Of course, it doesn't answer the question "would that be so bad?" I can only guess that during the playtesting phase of 3e some abusive combinations of fighter and monk appeared... its the only reason I can think of why there is this exception to the general rule of multiclassing.

I suppose the worst case is imagining a Ftr19/Monk1, who would have a BAB of +19, and then might be able to get attacks at +19/+16/+13/+10/+7/+4/+1 with his holy, lawful +5 kama

Generally speaking though a Monk who multiclassed as a fighter would lose out on his increased base damage, which is quite a benefit at the higher levels... A Monk10/Ftr10 would have lots of extra feats, lose several cool monk abilities - and only have 1d10 damage, instead of 1d20 open hand.

Perhaps there are circumstances when it might work out OK??

Cheers

 

[Nail]

Krey wrong? Can't be!

...oh wait, look here in the PHB under multiclassing: an example of a multiclass monk. Wha'd'ya know.....

I'd guess that play testing showed it was a bad idea. Imagine a Monk 16, Ftr 4, specialized with Unarmed strike.

He'd get 7 ATTACKS PER ROUND with th' flurry of blows full round action. If you do the average damage per round math, such a monk outdoes even a fighter specialized wit' th' greatsword, at levels 9 thru 20, at nearly all ACs.

Not that I tried to slip that past a DM before, or anything.....

 

[Christian]

... a Ftr19/Monk1, who would have a BAB of +19, and then might be able to get attacks at +19/+16/+13/+10/+7/+4/+1 with his holy, lawful +5 kama ...

You forgot to have him use the flurry of blows ability!

Actually, he needs the Lightning Fists feat from S&F, so he can attack at +14/+14/+14/+11/+8/+5/+2/-1/-4.

 

[kreynolds]

Nope Kreynolds, have to disagree.

So the two BAB don't get added together then? Odd, but makes sense.

EDIT: I see now. I just found it in the FAQ too. Thanks Sable.

OK, your Monk6/Fighter3.

Wrong. My monk was Monk6/Fighter 2.

 

[Gromm]

Basically a multiclassed monk has his BAB and his Monk Unarmed BAB, which are seperate from each other.
So if he has +4 from Monk and +3 from Fighter he gets either
+4/+1 or +7/+2.

 

[SableWyvern]

Basically a multiclassed monk has his BAB and his Monk Unarmed BAB, which are seperate from each other.
So if he has +4 from Monk and +3 from Fighter he gets either
+4/+1 or +7/+2.

No.

Check the section in the PHB, p55.

Reread my post.

A multiclassed monk always uses his combined bab for his primary attack.

His iterative attacks are determined in one of two ways.

Either: Work out the iterative attacks from the primary bab, as with any other, non-monk character. (note: when fighting armed, this method is always used).

Or: Reference the Monk class abilities table. Use the row for the character's monk level. Take the iterative (but not primary) attacks listed for his monk level.