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<blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 8383126" data-attributes="member: 3400">Pushing the bonuses down to start at 12 doesn't really indicate that the bell curve distribution has been abandoned. If you roll your stats, that curve is still there. It just means that benefits (and penalties) start earlier on the curve instead of being concentrated up into the tails. A 2e cleric with a 13 Wisdom works fine - for a while. You won't be casting 6th or 7th level spells, though, when you reach a level high enough to do so. So even back in 1e and 2e, there were points in which lack of a high stat would affect your level of success in a class - even if the class itself had low entry requirements like the big 4 (fighter, wizard, cleric, thief).That's a personal play style issue and, I think we can be certain, you can't stop people from playing that way. As long as there are choices to be made in customizing a character, optimization will happen whether it's via attribute bonuses that add to rolls or other choices that affect the probability of success. I mean, I might agree that PCs don't need to be pushed to the highest bonus to be effective in D&amp;D, particularly in 5e, and so I don't play that way - but I know quite well that there are people who do. And 5e's design means that even if they do, their PCs aren't all that much better than the PCs of players who don't.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="billd91, post: 8383126, member: 3400"] Pushing the bonuses down to start at 12 doesn't really indicate that the bell curve distribution has been abandoned. If you roll your stats, that curve is still there. It just means that benefits (and penalties) start earlier on the curve instead of being concentrated up into the tails. A 2e cleric with a 13 Wisdom works fine - for a while. You won't be casting 6th or 7th level spells, though, when you reach a level high enough to do so. So even back in 1e and 2e, there were points in which lack of a high stat would affect your level of success in a class - even if the class itself had low entry requirements like the big 4 (fighter, wizard, cleric, thief). That's a personal play style issue and, I think we can be certain, you can't stop people from playing that way. As long as there are choices to be made in customizing a character, optimization [B]will [/B]happen whether it's via attribute bonuses that add to rolls or other choices that affect the probability of success. I mean, I might agree that PCs don't need to be pushed to the highest bonus to be effective in D&D, particularly in 5e, and so I don't play that way - but I know quite well that there are people who do. And 5e's design means that even if they do, their PCs aren't all that much better than the PCs of players who don't. [/QUOTE]

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