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Banishing Eldritch Blast
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<blockquote data-quote="Hawk Diesel" data-source="post: 7518563" data-attributes="member: 59848"><p>While those are viable options for a Rogue, I think you are missing some things. A 3rd level Rogue going Assassin has a means to auto-crit a surprised enemy. A 3rd level Inquisitive or Swashbuckler have new routes to make it easier to Sneak Attack more often. A rogue that simply uses basic Two Weapon Fighting rules (can be achieve at level 1) instantly increases there opportunities for Sneak Attack. I think I have mentioned this previously in this conversation, but the point of Eldritch Blast is more consistent damage, while Sneak Attack offers a MUCH higher damage ceiling with the trade off of being less consistent. So fewer builds around Sneak Attack are able to replicate that more reliable damage since that is not what Sneak Attack is intended for.</p><p></p><p>But still, while a valid counter-point, it also misses the overall point. Which is that class features such as Sneak Attack and Martial Arts, as core features of their classes of origin, function as intended when they are used often and perhaps even in spite of other options being available. </p><p></p><p>My argument is the Eldritch Blast should be a core feature of the Warlock. But since it is not (as the designers wrongly chose to make it a cantrip), then spamming Eldritch Blast feels different than spamming Sneak Attack or Martial Arts. </p><p></p><p>I would also argue that the Warlock's class and archetype design is so different than other classes that it can lead to confusion and a sense of too many options. First, unlike other classes that have a clear archetype, the Warlock has a Patron (technically considered the archetype) and a Pact (somewhat of a mini-archetype). But the Patrons don't seem to mechanically function as other archetypes do. They add features that are thematic to the particular Patron, but none of them truly support existing core features of the warlock (as other archetypes tend to do), nor do they create any mechanics that are built upon as you continue in that archetype. Rather, each Patron seems a hodgepodge of interesting mechanics, linked by thematic description, but not in any way mechanically related to one another. Think of the Battlemaster. That archetype introduces a new mechanic, and builds upon it. Same with the Rogue Assassin, the Ranger Gloomstalker, any many, many others.</p><p></p><p>So with this, while other classes rely on archetypes to drive their character builds, a Warlock's character build is more related to their Pact and their choice of invocations. I would argue the problem with this is that you have invocations that improve Eldritch Blast, and you have a very few that are specific to your Pact, but the rest are just kind of all over. So it is much easier to build around Eldritch Blast, but because it is not a core feature of the Warlock it feels like a cantrip AND invocation tax to do so. And because there are so many choices but few invocation slots, each is extremely valuable and needs to be chosen carefully (I would say this is similar to a Sorcerer and their limited number of spells known).</p><p></p><p>So, Warlocks have archetypes that don't feel or function like an archetype (I would say Hexblade recognizes this but tries to over correct), Eldritch Blast incorporated and supported as if its a core feature despite being a cantrip, and mechanical support for Pacts and builds through invocations but very few actually related to your Pact. This last part is especially strange, since Pacts ARE core features but get less invocation support than Eldritch Blast, which IS NOT technically a core class feature.</p><p></p><p>All of this creates identity confusion about how a Warlock can or should function. It would be like if you were playing a rogue and could pick and chose which archetype feature you wanted at each level. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So I actually have a product on the dmsguild that addresses how to treat the Hexblade. I would link to it, but after engaging in the conversation in this thread, I feel like maybe the Warlock redesign I created could be tweaked. But, I can give you the basics of what I did.</p><p></p><p>1) Adjust the Warlock class. Hex becomes a class feature at level 2, usable 1/short rest for 1 min, no concentration. Still requires a bonus Action.</p><p></p><p>2) Hexblade level one grants proficiency in medium armor, shields, and martial weapons. This brings the first level of the Patron in line with relative power of the other patrons. Also stops the Hexblade from stepping on the toes of the Fiend patron.</p><p></p><p>3) Further levels in the Hexblade modify or improve how they use the Hex class feature.</p><p></p><p>4) Pact of the Blade provides the character with a new Eldritch Blast variant. You could call it Eldritch Weapon, and rather than a ranged spell attack, it is a melee spell attack.</p><p></p><p>This way, Hexblade remains thematic with regard to improving Hex and allowing more melee oriented warlocks. Hexblade still benefits from taking Pact of the Blade (As currently Hexblades have no reason to take Pact of the Blade). But Hexblades can function just as well without Pact of the Blade, and Pact of the Blade is still a viable option for any Patron.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hawk Diesel, post: 7518563, member: 59848"] While those are viable options for a Rogue, I think you are missing some things. A 3rd level Rogue going Assassin has a means to auto-crit a surprised enemy. A 3rd level Inquisitive or Swashbuckler have new routes to make it easier to Sneak Attack more often. A rogue that simply uses basic Two Weapon Fighting rules (can be achieve at level 1) instantly increases there opportunities for Sneak Attack. I think I have mentioned this previously in this conversation, but the point of Eldritch Blast is more consistent damage, while Sneak Attack offers a MUCH higher damage ceiling with the trade off of being less consistent. So fewer builds around Sneak Attack are able to replicate that more reliable damage since that is not what Sneak Attack is intended for. But still, while a valid counter-point, it also misses the overall point. Which is that class features such as Sneak Attack and Martial Arts, as core features of their classes of origin, function as intended when they are used often and perhaps even in spite of other options being available. My argument is the Eldritch Blast should be a core feature of the Warlock. But since it is not (as the designers wrongly chose to make it a cantrip), then spamming Eldritch Blast feels different than spamming Sneak Attack or Martial Arts. I would also argue that the Warlock's class and archetype design is so different than other classes that it can lead to confusion and a sense of too many options. First, unlike other classes that have a clear archetype, the Warlock has a Patron (technically considered the archetype) and a Pact (somewhat of a mini-archetype). But the Patrons don't seem to mechanically function as other archetypes do. They add features that are thematic to the particular Patron, but none of them truly support existing core features of the warlock (as other archetypes tend to do), nor do they create any mechanics that are built upon as you continue in that archetype. Rather, each Patron seems a hodgepodge of interesting mechanics, linked by thematic description, but not in any way mechanically related to one another. Think of the Battlemaster. That archetype introduces a new mechanic, and builds upon it. Same with the Rogue Assassin, the Ranger Gloomstalker, any many, many others. So with this, while other classes rely on archetypes to drive their character builds, a Warlock's character build is more related to their Pact and their choice of invocations. I would argue the problem with this is that you have invocations that improve Eldritch Blast, and you have a very few that are specific to your Pact, but the rest are just kind of all over. So it is much easier to build around Eldritch Blast, but because it is not a core feature of the Warlock it feels like a cantrip AND invocation tax to do so. And because there are so many choices but few invocation slots, each is extremely valuable and needs to be chosen carefully (I would say this is similar to a Sorcerer and their limited number of spells known). So, Warlocks have archetypes that don't feel or function like an archetype (I would say Hexblade recognizes this but tries to over correct), Eldritch Blast incorporated and supported as if its a core feature despite being a cantrip, and mechanical support for Pacts and builds through invocations but very few actually related to your Pact. This last part is especially strange, since Pacts ARE core features but get less invocation support than Eldritch Blast, which IS NOT technically a core class feature. All of this creates identity confusion about how a Warlock can or should function. It would be like if you were playing a rogue and could pick and chose which archetype feature you wanted at each level. So I actually have a product on the dmsguild that addresses how to treat the Hexblade. I would link to it, but after engaging in the conversation in this thread, I feel like maybe the Warlock redesign I created could be tweaked. But, I can give you the basics of what I did. 1) Adjust the Warlock class. Hex becomes a class feature at level 2, usable 1/short rest for 1 min, no concentration. Still requires a bonus Action. 2) Hexblade level one grants proficiency in medium armor, shields, and martial weapons. This brings the first level of the Patron in line with relative power of the other patrons. Also stops the Hexblade from stepping on the toes of the Fiend patron. 3) Further levels in the Hexblade modify or improve how they use the Hex class feature. 4) Pact of the Blade provides the character with a new Eldritch Blast variant. You could call it Eldritch Weapon, and rather than a ranged spell attack, it is a melee spell attack. This way, Hexblade remains thematic with regard to improving Hex and allowing more melee oriented warlocks. Hexblade still benefits from taking Pact of the Blade (As currently Hexblades have no reason to take Pact of the Blade). But Hexblades can function just as well without Pact of the Blade, and Pact of the Blade is still a viable option for any Patron. [/QUOTE]
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