Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hawk Diesel" data-source="post: 7518697" data-attributes="member: 59848">I disagree. We are talking about D&D in its 5th iteration. Each is built upon the last, and 5e seems to be the best example of an edition that took what works from the previous ones and tried to scrap what didn't. As such, we are not talking about a sacred cow like Ability Scores, and we are not talking about a game it is being built from the ground up in a vacuum without history or context to guide design decisions. We are talking about the common interpretation of what makes a Fighter, a Rogue, a Wizard, and so on. Each have their respective identities. You cannot have a Barbarian without some ability to rage. You cannot have a Rogue that does not Sneak Attack. You cannot have a Monk that does not use Martial Arts. Now how these things are reflected in the mechanics may change, but these are each core aspects of their class identity. The only exception I see when it comes to 5e is with the Warlock (and probably the Sorcerer given that all casters are now spontaneous casters by 3.x standards of magic use). Eldritch Blast was not just part of its identity, but its defining characteristic. When they first appeared, a high level warlock without any specific build could consistently fire beams of energy dealing multiple dice worth or damage to a single target without requiring resource use or investment. It was what made the Warlock cool and fun. For 5e to disregard that history in its design is, from my perspective, a mistake.No. I say cantrip tax because it requires investment for an ability that is mechanically presented similarly and supported in ways that other core class abilities are handled. Once again, a rogue needs no additional investment to get access to Sneak Attack. A monk needs no additional investment to get Martial Arts. Each have options that can improve or focus upon those abilities. But there is nothing they need to do to gain access to them.Additionally, even without Eldritch Blast, Warlocks were always presented as the ones capable of casting all day without rest or resource investment. The fact that they have so few cantrips I think is also a mistake. It would make more sense and be more aligned with the identity of the Warlock to grant tons of Cantrips and Invocations and get rid of Pact Magic and Mystic Arcanum entirely. However, I'm not trying to throw the baby out with the bath water. But when it comes to Eldritch Blast, it is just more appropriate as a core class feature, no investment required. Investment for improvement, sure. But not for access.Yes, the Warlock is highly customizable. And that is not necessarily a bad thing. But once again, Eldritch Blast is not designed like a cantrip. It is not supported like a cantrip. I see no class abilities anywhere that specifically improve Chill Touch, or Acid Splash specifically. There are archetypes that extend the use of Mage Hand with the Arcane Trickster, or the Illusionist that can use both the sound and sight version of Minor Illusion simultaneously. But those are extensions of what those cantrips already do and thematic to the specific archetype. Eldritch Blast is vastly different from any other cantrip. It is the only one that deals force damage, it improves with additional rays rather than increasing the number of damage dice on the one attack, and it has MANY ways to improve it through invocations. It simply does not function like any existing cantrip, it has way more support than any existing cantrip, and so it really does not belong on the list of cantrips and should simply be a core class feature.No, and I feel you are taking it to a bit of an extreme. Not only do we see these conversations consistently taking place on this forum regarding Eldritch Blast, but your example uses specific cantrips as if they matter to the example, when in fact a wide array of spells and cantrips can benefit from twinning, fire dragon sorcerer abilities, and so on. That is based on whether the spell targets a single person and the energy type of the spell or cantrip, respectively. Meanwhile, warlock invocations ONLY modify Eldritch Blast, and do so in a way that intentionally takes advantage of the multiple rays produced by the cantrip. Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast, Pull of Hadar, each benefits directly from the individual rays produced. They would not and cannot have the same impact with other spells or cantrips. Once again, its almost as if these things were designed specifically with Eldritch Blast in mind, rather than just any old cantrip or spell. Like maybe it was meant to be a class feature, but the designers traded design space for a dedicated beam attack for something else. As such, this makes Eldritch Blast on a warlock unreasonable to compare to other cantrips, and much more reasonable to compare how an Assassin Rogue benefits Sneak Attack or how Martial Arts benefits from the Kensei archetype. Exactly. Just like a multiclass rogue doesn't Sneak Attack as well as a full class rogue, or a multiclass monk doesn't hit as hard as a full class monk, or a multiclass fighter doesn't get as many action surge attacks as a full class fighter. Once again, this reaffirms that Eldritch Blast is mechanically equivalent to other core class abilities, but unlike them requires investment to access and is unfairly compared to other cantrips despite being mechanically distinct from any other cantrip.</blockquote>

Verification