Hi folks, I need a clarification regarding retraining, specifically whether one can tap unused retraining opportunities from prior levels. My reading of the RAW is that only a single change can be made at a given level. Essentially, it's a use it or lose it kind of thing. If you choose not to retrain during a specific level, so be it. That opportunity is lost and your subsequent level offers you the opportunity to change a single thing at that level.
Some of my players are arguing that the rules should be read as a single change PER level is permitted. In other words, if you do not use the retraining, that opportunity to retrain is not lost once you gain a level. You effectively bank it for future use. This would allow a massive bulk swapping of feats, powers and such at a single level by tapping into all the previously unused retraining choices. So, if you had never retrained a thing prior to level 25, you could literally change 25 different powers, feat, etc in a shot, using up all your banked up retraining.
In support of their view, they point to the character builder, which pretty much leaves the buttons for prior level retraining fully usable and does not flag your character as house ruled if you tap those prior retrainings. My take on that is that the character builder lets you make all sorts of non-RAW changes without raising a flag. As long as the points balance out in the end, the builder doesn't really care if you retconned your character like mad.
I view using "banked" retraining as retconning a character in a manner that flies in the face of the RAW (and the spirit of verisimilitude). The players in question are arguing that it is an intended use of retraining. One described it as an intentional attempt to mimic MMO respeccing. I find the notion of massive changes to a character in that manner completely alien to pen and paper RPGs barring some dramatic storyline that could justify a character's "rebirth".
So, my understanding is that retraining is meant to give you the option of gradually transforming your character as your tastes, the character and the story evolve. You might pick a power and be unsatisfied with it and train to something different. You don't go through a long period of stability and suddenly gain the capacity for massive self-transformation.
I've checked the errata and rules updates and found nothing that suggests the RAW changed since publication of 4e on this matter. One of my players says he's seen plenty of online discussions discussing character development (dunno which forum but I'd guess the WotC one) where his view is always the one used by the players discussing character retraining.
I'm don't think he's lying but I've seen plenty of junk opinions on rules come from some boards (especially WotC's own). Power gamers are often all too happy to twist rules interpretation to suit them and the char builder allows all sorts of abuse when it comes to retconning characters. I've tried Googling to find such threads but had no luck. Maybe I'm just using the wrong search terms.
In my experience, ENWorld's rules forum has usually been the most reliable on rules interpretation so I'm asking my question here. Is the opportunity to retrain a use it or lose it thing or can you tap the retraining options of past levels (i.e "bank" retrainings)?
Clearly I already know my own inclination on how to read the rules on this both in letter and spirit but I want to give my players a fair shake and get an outside opinion. My group is pretty split in opinion on which interpretation they view as correct (call it 1/3 agree with each side and 1/3 don't really care). I'm willing to entertain the possibility that my interpretation isn't the norm.
Is the view they are suggesting the accepted norm? Is 4e intended to allow what amounts to a complete respec by saving up retraining?
Some of my players are arguing that the rules should be read as a single change PER level is permitted. In other words, if you do not use the retraining, that opportunity to retrain is not lost once you gain a level. You effectively bank it for future use. This would allow a massive bulk swapping of feats, powers and such at a single level by tapping into all the previously unused retraining choices. So, if you had never retrained a thing prior to level 25, you could literally change 25 different powers, feat, etc in a shot, using up all your banked up retraining.
In support of their view, they point to the character builder, which pretty much leaves the buttons for prior level retraining fully usable and does not flag your character as house ruled if you tap those prior retrainings. My take on that is that the character builder lets you make all sorts of non-RAW changes without raising a flag. As long as the points balance out in the end, the builder doesn't really care if you retconned your character like mad.
I view using "banked" retraining as retconning a character in a manner that flies in the face of the RAW (and the spirit of verisimilitude). The players in question are arguing that it is an intended use of retraining. One described it as an intentional attempt to mimic MMO respeccing. I find the notion of massive changes to a character in that manner completely alien to pen and paper RPGs barring some dramatic storyline that could justify a character's "rebirth".
So, my understanding is that retraining is meant to give you the option of gradually transforming your character as your tastes, the character and the story evolve. You might pick a power and be unsatisfied with it and train to something different. You don't go through a long period of stability and suddenly gain the capacity for massive self-transformation.
I've checked the errata and rules updates and found nothing that suggests the RAW changed since publication of 4e on this matter. One of my players says he's seen plenty of online discussions discussing character development (dunno which forum but I'd guess the WotC one) where his view is always the one used by the players discussing character retraining.
I'm don't think he's lying but I've seen plenty of junk opinions on rules come from some boards (especially WotC's own). Power gamers are often all too happy to twist rules interpretation to suit them and the char builder allows all sorts of abuse when it comes to retconning characters. I've tried Googling to find such threads but had no luck. Maybe I'm just using the wrong search terms.
In my experience, ENWorld's rules forum has usually been the most reliable on rules interpretation so I'm asking my question here. Is the opportunity to retrain a use it or lose it thing or can you tap the retraining options of past levels (i.e "bank" retrainings)?
Clearly I already know my own inclination on how to read the rules on this both in letter and spirit but I want to give my players a fair shake and get an outside opinion. My group is pretty split in opinion on which interpretation they view as correct (call it 1/3 agree with each side and 1/3 don't really care). I'm willing to entertain the possibility that my interpretation isn't the norm.
Is the view they are suggesting the accepted norm? Is 4e intended to allow what amounts to a complete respec by saving up retraining?
