Banned Books Week

Waldo books should not be in schools because THERE ARE NO WORDS! It contains no educational value what so ever. The reason that books like waldo are challenged is because an individual school library has a very small budget. There is no committee dedicated to deciding what books will be ordered every year, that is the job of ONE person.

If I was a parent, I would question spending limited resources on "Captain Underpants" or "Where's Waldo". My first question would be "What good books did you pass up to stock this drivel."

Books are like TV programs. Some are good and enriching, others are mass market dreck. What is funny is that we as a society have placed the written word upon a pedestal when in actuality a bad book is just as bad for a kid as a bad TV show is.

Please keep in mind that I am explaining the presence of seemingly innocent books on that list. There is no call for not teaching "To Kill a Mockingbird" in middle school. But I understand the other side. That is a discussion for another date.
 

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Grand_Director said:
Waldo books should not be in schools because THERE ARE NO WORDS! It contains no educational value what so ever. The reason that books like waldo are challenged is because an individual school library has a very small budget. There is no committee dedicated to deciding what books will be ordered every year, that is the job of ONE person.
No.

_Where's Waldo_ is challenged solely because one page shows a pair of kids throwing a bucket of water on a sunbathing woman, who then reveals her naked chest. It's a really tiny picture, and certainly not worth the brouhaha, but it's there.

(The value of the books, by the way, can be found in the way that they make kids foucus on the little details. That kind of sustained concentration on something that many children find very difficult indeed.)

As to the rest of your statement.... I'll keep it brief. I'm a children's librarian. I think that you're very, very wrong. Best way to make kids into readers is to make them comfortable with books, and the best way to do that? Give them books they want to read.

Too many kids see reading books as a chore. Something like "Captain Underpants", one of our most popular books, shows them that books can be fun. The value of that is beyond estimation.

We watch our budget very carefully, and we've made the decision to spend out funds on books that circulate. There's no point in spending money on books that will just sit on the shelf and gather dust.

Rolzup
 

William Ronald said:
My main complaint about how literature is taught in many classes is that interesting books can be made to seem as exciting as a grocery list. I actually enjoyed To Kill a Mockingbird, but I also enjoy a variety of other works. Sometimes a work is selected by a school board because it is deemed to be a classic, illustrative of a topic or historical period, or is considered influential. (Shakespeare's plays are studied in most American high schools because of the Bard of Avon's great influence on other writers.)
Exactly, I did enjoy To Kill a Mockingbird when I read it on my own, but the school's bumbling protracted vivisection of the book left me a bit queasy. After that I made a point to try to read every assigned book before we actually started on it in class that way I was able to spend a few happy days with my beloved literature before it was eviscerated in the name of education. IMO nothing ruins a book more than a slow painstaking as you go bit by bit scrutiny. It fouls the mood, ruins the continuity, and generally makes books unbearably boring this especially true for books I have not read before (at least for me).

(also I think that in your post you quoted me not Aaron L)
 

Rolzup said:
Grand_Director said:
Waldo books should not be in schools because THERE ARE NO WORDS! It contains no educational value what so ever. The reason that books like waldo are challenged is because an individual school library has a very small budget. There is no committee dedicated to deciding what books will be ordered every year, that is the job of ONE person.
No.

_Where's Waldo_ is challenged solely because one page shows a pair of kids throwing a bucket of water on a sunbathing woman, who then reveals her naked chest. It's a really tiny picture, and certainly not worth the brouhaha, but it's there.

(The value of the books, by the way, can be found in the way that they make kids foucus on the little details. That kind of sustained concentration on something that many children find very difficult indeed.)

As to the rest of your statement.... I'll keep it brief. I'm a children's librarian. I think that you're very, very wrong. Best way to make kids into readers is to make them comfortable with books, and the best way to do that? Give them books they want to read.

Too many kids see reading books as a chore. Something like "Captain Underpants", one of our most popular books, shows them that books can be fun. The value of that is beyond estimation.

We watch our budget very carefully, and we've made the decision to spend out funds on books that circulate. There's no point in spending money on books that will just sit on the shelf and gather dust.

Rolzup
Fine. In the child’s library that is fine. And if the parents agree with the values in the book then they can let their kids read them in the home. But a community expects that a school will have book choices that no one could object to. That is a reasonable expectation because parents can not monitor what their child may be reading during free reading time at school.

My wife teaches elementary school so I am familiar how the process of book selection works. I am also familiar with the concept of gaining the child’s attention to engage them in reading. But, I also I know that this can be accomplished with out directing them to read dumb down vulgarity. Candy and chicken fingers are the things that kids love to eat but we don’t feed that to them in the hopes they will learn how to eat a healthy meal. You get them to learn to love reading by giving them intelligent books that challenge whatever concept is appropriate for their age level. For example, repetition and sight words for young ones, complex sentence structure and increasing vocabulary at a higher age. It is by giving these “boring” books to kids that you teach them that it is not so bad. I would much rather my child read something by E.B. White or Dahl then Captain Underpants. But if the kid wants to read it at night before going to bed, fine. I wouldn’t stop my child from reading comic books, but I don’t think they should be offered in the school library in an effort to get kids to read.

Books should not be banned (i.e. laws passed to prevent someone from reading a book) but a community should have the right to expect a certain level of appropriateness when it comes to the materials that a school uses to impart lessons. Books (especially for young children) can be fun and funny without being stupid.
 

It's worth bearing in mind that banning books is not limited to kids in the US. For years, Lady Chatterly's Lover by D.H. Lawrence was banned in England and Wales.

And in the Soviet Union, 1984 by George Orwell was banned except to members of the ruling Politburo (sp?). If you're ever in a country that bans 1984, leave the country by the quickest means possible.

Lastly, I believe that Schindler's List is currently banned in Malaysia on the grounds that it's "Jewish propaganda". *shudder*
 

Grand_Director said:
It is by giving these “boring” books to kids that you teach them that it is not so bad. I would much rather my child read something by E.B. White or Dahl then Captain Underpants. But if the kid wants to read it at night before going to bed, fine. I wouldn’t stop my child from reading comic books, but I don’t think they should be offered in the school library in an effort to get kids to read.

We've different philosophies here, and I doubt that the twain shall meet -- in my eyes, ANY reading is good reading, and that's pretty much the prevailing opinion in the profession right now. Notice how many public liraries are starting to stock graphic novels, for instance....

But I do feel obliged to note that Roald Dahl, for one, is a writer often accused of vulagarity and "low" humor by his critics. _The BFG_, for one, has a chapter full of fart jokes.

"Captain Underpants" is no worse.
 

Grand_Director said:
Waldo books should not be in schools because THERE ARE NO WORDS! It contains no educational value what so ever. The reason that books like waldo are challenged is because an individual school library has a very small budget. There is no committee dedicated to deciding what books will be ordered every year, that is the job of ONE person.

If I was a parent, I would question spending limited resources on "Captain Underpants" or "Where's Waldo". My first question would be "What good books did you pass up to stock this drivel."

Books are like TV programs. Some are good and enriching, others are mass market dreck. What is funny is that we as a society have placed the written word upon a pedestal when in actuality a bad book is just as bad for a kid as a bad TV show is.

Please keep in mind that I am explaining the presence of seemingly innocent books on that list. There is no call for not teaching "To Kill a Mockingbird" in middle school. But I understand the other side. That is a discussion for another date.

As people have said before me, the Where's Waldo books were banned for one tiny, non-sexually explicit picture (cartoon picture) of a womans naked chest.
I don't fully understand what people have against nudity, since all these kids will one day be adults , who at some point in their lives, will inevitably be naked in front of a mirror... :rolleyes: but ok. I'll give them that, not wanting a book that shows a half naked cartoon lady.

But to say that the Where's Waldo books have no educational value because they have no words is silly. They encourage childrens minds to work, trying to find something small in a picture. They encourage children to look for details , a skill that will undoubtably help them out later in life.

The Captain Underpants books are fun. Reading, any reading, is good for children. When I was little, my parents encouraged me to read everything from picture books with one word, to classics, to cereal boxes, to signs along the highway. Reading , esp for children, helps kids learn. The more practice they get reading outside of schoolbooks, the easier reading the schoolbooks will become.
Children like reading silly, gross, goofy things. Kids tend to think anything involving underwear, bugs, slime, and "gross" bodily functions is hilarious, and I say, let them read it, if it encourages them to like books, and see that books are fun.

I read to elementary school kids (grades 1 & 2) for a volunteer program in Boston. The kids favorite book that I read to them is called Edward Fudwupper Fibbed Big. It's a silly story, that features children laughing at things like underwear and a fat lady in a bikini. Will these kids grow up to become insensitive, cruel, heartless monsters? I seriously doubt it, since the MORAL of Fudwupper Fibbed Big is that a little girl tells a lie to cover up for her brother, and then he comes clean. It's about telling the truth, and that your parents will still love you if you do something wrong. And the kids love it, because it's funny.

By the reasoning that libraries shouldn't stock books that have "no educational value" , most of the books would be gone. All books have value, even if it's just helping kids learn new words, or practice reading basic words. A series that pops to my mind is The BabySitter Club series that I read when I was 12 or so.
There's no real moral, they are pretty basic, pre-teen fluff. By your reasoning, these books should not be in the junior high school library.

BUT...they show a group of pre-teen girls who handle social relationships even when friends fight. They show a group of girls who have an idea for a business, and set it up, run the business, and succeed. They show a group of kids who are very different coming together for a purpose and being friends. They tackle difficult childhood diseases, such as diabetes (something I was grateful for, as I found out I was diabetic a few years after outgrowing the series).

I guess my point is, there is always something to learn from a book, if you really look. I suspect people who want to ban books, don't really look.

Should kids be allowed to read "Private Parts" ? Well, I doubt most elementary school kids would be able to read a book that long. Nor would the book look very interesting to them. Kids like books where there are kids, or animals as characters. A middle school, or high school kid who wants to read such a book, should be allowed to. Kids are not as stupid as people think they are. I firmly belive that kids who read adult books as teenagers, the vast majority of them, think about the book, and form their own opinions. If a kid that age is going to become "problematic" after reading "Private Parts", I think there were probably deeper problems there to begin with.

I would not have a problem with books having a rating system like movies. But if the kids parents didn't have a problem with him reading this, then by all means, let him read it. There is no need to have a community library not stock such a book.

The one that always bugs me when I hear about this list every year (I'm in the book business so we pay close attention to it) is Huckleberry Finn. I understan there is racism, and disobeying adults in the book, but the main character disobeys his aunt because he thinks slavery is wrong. I don't have the book in front of me, but I belive at one point he says something like this :

"All right. I'll go to hell. But I'll take up wickedness again, which is my line, being brought up to it. For a start, I'll steal Jim out of slavery again."

So Huck is doing something that most people would think of as good. He is questioning a practice (slavery) that most clear thinking, rational adults recognize was wrong.

This book teaches history about that time, shows kids the mistakes that people made then, and teaches kids to question authority and things that they think are wrong. One of the great things about living in this country, is that we are free to do that.

I find that people who want this book banned, want it banned for "insensitive racial language". That is silly, IMO, as the POINT of the book, is that that language WAS and IS wrong. You can't erase history by ignoring it. I learned more history in my 10th grade year of school from Huck Finn than from my actual history class.

It also saddens me that the Harry Potter books are challenged so often. This is a series that encourages children to have imaginations, to immerse themselves in fantasy and dream. This book has captivated kids the world over, including some kids who never even considered picking a book up before. To want to take that away from kids is a shame. :(

And as for the teenage life sucks books, "Are you there God? It's me, Margret" made me feel a lot less alone when I was 14. And I know plenty of women who feel the same.

There are some books that obviously do not belong in school libraries. Should school libraries stock books like the Anarchist cookbook? Probably not. Should they stock Penthouse letters? No.
Should they stock science books that give information on the chemical reactions that cause explosions? Yes. Should they stock "Where do Babies come from?" . Yes. And a public library should stock all of these. Adults in a public library should not have to not have access to a book that is questionable because it's not a book for kids. Surely librarians can keep books like Anarchist cookbook, and Penthouse letters behind the counter and check ids before signing those out to people.
 

There are some great books in that list! I still remember The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood from one of my many literature classes. Great book. And, considering its story, rather ironic that it's on a banned book list. :)
 

Actually, I read Lord of the Flies when I was about 13. It was, in a word, emotionally scarring. While it was perhaps an important book to read, I can understand why someone would want to ban it - Not that I would agree with them.
 

Grand_Director said:
But a community expects that a school will have book choices that no one could object to.

This is the problem. There are no such book choices. Pick any given book, andyou'll be able to find someone who will object to it. There are too many varied opinions of what is appropriate. If you dumb down to the lowest common denominator, someone will gripe that money is being spent on mindless drek. If you don't, someone will complain that they don't feel a particular piece with thought-provoking content is appropriate. Catch-22.

Also, this is where things get political - part of the whole "freedom of speech" thing is that the majority are not supposed to control what the minority may or may not be exposed to, and vice versa. Thus the quandry - the people are spending money on it, and want a say in what gets bought, but it is part of the government's job to keep that from happening.

Time travel is not the only plce where paradoxes occur :)
 

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