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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cortrillion" data-source="post: 6619340" data-attributes="member: 6795419">Thanks a lot again, emdw45. The reason the fighter dos not have a level 6 feat is that they are only level 5 "in real life", and i don't know what feat the fighter will pick. Sidetrack.To me the feats look completely out of balance, most blatantly is the Great Weapon Master, Heavy armor Master (looks like the strongest feat in the game by far, and for some insane reason it also gives +1 str on top) and Polearm Master. There is no equivalent feat for the other weapons, except ranged weapons and crossbow, forcing players onto the railroad of Great weapon polearm or range/offhand crossbow. Anyway that was again for a different thread (the one called "WTF is this? Early access? why is the book only ½ way done?")Anyway, I do agree emdw45, the main problem is that the paladin already has alot of the equipment he needs to do his job (a 2 hander) and the fighter can make use of one more part, the shield. Also it looks like the shield mastery push + attack round +action surge + combat superiority dice can really spike up the damage on a single target. Also it has to be noted that the paladin is going for the "play to win" approach where the warrior is more of a "fit the feats to story and personality". One thing that scares me is if the paladin keeps it up and multiclass to a priest after level 6. 14 levels of priest is insane for a paladin, No lose in combat power, rather a huge gain depending on path taken and the cleric gains divine smite on one attack pr. round. Add to that a lot of casting power and a level 9 smite hits for +10d8 damage. Pal6/clr14 nets +94d8 smite damage from spells over 22 attacks = 19,2 damage extra pr. attack, but with the maximum of +45 damage on a single hit. 22 attacks would be 11 rounds of combat, assuming all attacks hit and no crits (+5 to the first 20 attacks  from Sacred weapon and +10 to hit to two attacks that miss from divine guidance. Taking into account the great weapon mastery neg5 to hit and +10 damage, but not counting great weapon fighting as one can argue about the effect working on smites, we end at average 1005 damage over 11 rounds vs a test dummy.Looking at the warrior I get the numbers for a level 20 battle master, with a onehander, using dueling and action surge to gain more attacks, assuming all attacks hit and using all superiority dice it would be 57.9 average damage pr. round, totaling 637 damage over 11 round vs test dummy. Just about 60% of the damage the paladin deals. With the warrior having none of the  extra abilities the paladin has.This is of cause not even close the a real situation. But as the thread is about balance, I would love it if one of you (@emdw45) would look at the numbers.Lets say vs the minotaurs from above. Fighter Battlemaster having str: 20, con: 20, sing a battleaxe (dueling) and a  shield,in plate armor and having the feats, Shield master, Heavy armor  master, Sentinel and Tough.Fighter Champion str: 20, con: 20, using a great sword (Great weapon fighting), in plate armor and having the feats, Great weapon master, Heavy armor master, Sentinel and Tough.The paladin Oath of Devotion, having str: 20, Con: 16, Cha: 20, using a great maul (Great weapon fighting) and plate armor, Having the feats, Heavy armor master, Great weapon master and sentinel. Paladin/cleric Oath of Devotion/ war (whatever) str: 20, Con: 16, Cha: 20, using a great maul  (Great weapon fighting) and plate armor, Having the feats, Heavy armor  master, Great weapon master and sentinel.I would think the paladin/cleric would win out by a significant amount and that the pure paladin would also beat out the battle master and the champion. Maybe some one what to throw in some polearm? This is a lot of work, but the tread is about balance and I do think that you need to look at the best of the class and not just the average. Dnd being what it is, one cant really have a roll playing bounce, but for a dice rolling perspective there is a lot of balancing to be done. As i always say, you cant be overpowered or underpowered when looking at the adventure game and the enemies you face, you can only be so vs. the rest of the player group. TL;TR: Wall of text.</blockquote>

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