Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Barb vs Fighter vs Monk..vs Paladin!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6619912" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>Okay, here's some basic numbers for a level STR 18 5 GWM paladin (no smiting) vs. a STR 18 level 5 Shield Master battlemaster (no superiority dice usage). I put the script up here if you want to tweak STR score/number of minotaurs/AC/HP/feats/etc. Because it's a Monte Carlo sim, the numbers could be slightly off compared to the closed-form mathematical solution, but since I ran each combat 10,000 times they should be close enough that you won't notice a difference in play.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.tryfsharp.org/create/maxwilson/GWMFighterCompare.fsx" target="_blank">http://www.tryfsharp.org/create/maxwilson/GWMFighterCompare.fsx</a> (requires Silverlight; doesn't work in Chrome)</p><p></p><p>Note four things about this combat:</p><p>* My minotaurs do not use their reckless attack. This is a best case for the Shield Master fighter because trust me, when they use it, it's even worse for the shield guy because his AC is worth less and the GWM guy hits more. (I ran the numbers both ways.)</p><p>* Shield guy is using his shield to knock prone before making any attacks (granting advantage), and then if there is only one opponent, and that opponent is prone, he is backing away 30 feet. The minotaur gets an opportunity attack on him from the prone position but then cannot attack him next turn (only has 20 movement after getting up), so the net effect is that successful push = minotaur gets disadvantage on next attack.</p><p>* I am including bonus action attacks for the GWM guy on a crit or kill. They go towards the next minotaur who is still alive.</p><p>* The setup is that he fights N number of minotaurs (e.g. one minotaur at a time, or three minotaurs at a time), and then as soon as that fight is over, fights again and again until he dies. Then I average how long he lasted and how many minotaurs he killed before dying.</p><p></p><p>// Shield Mastery fighter vs. 1 Minotaur not using Reckless Attack</p><p>analyze (10000, 18, true, false, true, 1, 7, fun (roll) -> d(1, 8) + 4 + if roll = 20 then d(1,8) else 0)</p><p><strong>Average total damage before dying: 204.6, killing 2.1 minotaurs over 19.8 rounds with 10.31 DPR.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>// GWM paladin vs. 1 Minotaur not using Reckless Attack</p><p>analyze (10000, 16, false, true, true, 1, 7, fun (roll) -> d(1, 12) + 4 + if roll = 20 then d(1,12) else 0)</p><p><strong>Average total damage before dying: 267.4, killing 2.6 minotaurs over 16.0 rounds with 16.68 DPR.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>// GWM paladin using Power Attack vs. 1 Minotaur not using Reckless Attack</p><p>analyze (10000, 16, false, true, true, 1, 2, fun (roll) -> d(1, 12) + 14 + if roll = 20 then d(1,12) else 0)</p><p><strong>Average total damage before dying: 412.4, killing 4.0 minotaurs over 18.2 rounds with 22.69 DPR.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>// Shield Mastery fighter vs. 3 Minotaurs not using Reckless Attack</p><p>analyze (10000, 18, true, false, true, 3, 7, fun (roll) -> d(1, 8) + 4 + if roll = 20 then d(1,8) else 0)</p><p><strong>Average total damage before dying: 68.4, killing 0.4 minotaurs over 6.5 rounds with 10.58 DPR.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>// GWM paladin vs. 3 Minotaurs not using Reckless Attack</p><p>analyze (10000, 16, false, true, true, 3, 7, fun (roll) -> d(1, 12) + 4 + if roll = 20 then d(1,12) else 0)</p><p><strong>Average total damage before dying: 87.8, killing 0.6 minotaurs over 5.0 rounds with 17.41 DPR.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>// GWM paladin using Power Attack vs. 3 Minotaurs not using Reckless Attack</p><p>analyze (10000, 16, false, true, true, 3, 2, fun (roll) -> d(1, 12) + 14 + if roll = 20 then d(1,12) else 0)</p><p><strong>Average total damage before dying: 152.1, killing 1.3 minotaurs over 5.9 rounds with 25.92 DPR.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>I encourage you to play around with the script if you want to evaluate different levels, but I wanted to highlight two things about the results:</p><p></p><p>1.) Minotaurs are a particularly bad opponent for the shield guy. He is barely more survivable than the GWM guy (lasts 19 rounds before dying, vs. 18.2 for GWM guy) and he does less than half the damage over that time.</p><p></p><p>2.) If you ever fight three minotaurs at the same time, it doesn't matter whether you've got Shield Mastery or GWM or Heavy Armor Mastery or what. Just run away because they're going to kill you!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6619912, member: 6787650"] Okay, here's some basic numbers for a level STR 18 5 GWM paladin (no smiting) vs. a STR 18 level 5 Shield Master battlemaster (no superiority dice usage). I put the script up here if you want to tweak STR score/number of minotaurs/AC/HP/feats/etc. Because it's a Monte Carlo sim, the numbers could be slightly off compared to the closed-form mathematical solution, but since I ran each combat 10,000 times they should be close enough that you won't notice a difference in play. [URL]http://www.tryfsharp.org/create/maxwilson/GWMFighterCompare.fsx[/URL] (requires Silverlight; doesn't work in Chrome) Note four things about this combat: * My minotaurs do not use their reckless attack. This is a best case for the Shield Master fighter because trust me, when they use it, it's even worse for the shield guy because his AC is worth less and the GWM guy hits more. (I ran the numbers both ways.) * Shield guy is using his shield to knock prone before making any attacks (granting advantage), and then if there is only one opponent, and that opponent is prone, he is backing away 30 feet. The minotaur gets an opportunity attack on him from the prone position but then cannot attack him next turn (only has 20 movement after getting up), so the net effect is that successful push = minotaur gets disadvantage on next attack. * I am including bonus action attacks for the GWM guy on a crit or kill. They go towards the next minotaur who is still alive. * The setup is that he fights N number of minotaurs (e.g. one minotaur at a time, or three minotaurs at a time), and then as soon as that fight is over, fights again and again until he dies. Then I average how long he lasted and how many minotaurs he killed before dying. // Shield Mastery fighter vs. 1 Minotaur not using Reckless Attack analyze (10000, 18, true, false, true, 1, 7, fun (roll) -> d(1, 8) + 4 + if roll = 20 then d(1,8) else 0) [B]Average total damage before dying: 204.6, killing 2.1 minotaurs over 19.8 rounds with 10.31 DPR. [/B] // GWM paladin vs. 1 Minotaur not using Reckless Attack analyze (10000, 16, false, true, true, 1, 7, fun (roll) -> d(1, 12) + 4 + if roll = 20 then d(1,12) else 0) [B]Average total damage before dying: 267.4, killing 2.6 minotaurs over 16.0 rounds with 16.68 DPR. [/B] // GWM paladin using Power Attack vs. 1 Minotaur not using Reckless Attack analyze (10000, 16, false, true, true, 1, 2, fun (roll) -> d(1, 12) + 14 + if roll = 20 then d(1,12) else 0) [B]Average total damage before dying: 412.4, killing 4.0 minotaurs over 18.2 rounds with 22.69 DPR. [/B] // Shield Mastery fighter vs. 3 Minotaurs not using Reckless Attack analyze (10000, 18, true, false, true, 3, 7, fun (roll) -> d(1, 8) + 4 + if roll = 20 then d(1,8) else 0) [B]Average total damage before dying: 68.4, killing 0.4 minotaurs over 6.5 rounds with 10.58 DPR. [/B] // GWM paladin vs. 3 Minotaurs not using Reckless Attack analyze (10000, 16, false, true, true, 3, 7, fun (roll) -> d(1, 12) + 4 + if roll = 20 then d(1,12) else 0) [B]Average total damage before dying: 87.8, killing 0.6 minotaurs over 5.0 rounds with 17.41 DPR. [/B] // GWM paladin using Power Attack vs. 3 Minotaurs not using Reckless Attack analyze (10000, 16, false, true, true, 3, 2, fun (roll) -> d(1, 12) + 14 + if roll = 20 then d(1,12) else 0) [B]Average total damage before dying: 152.1, killing 1.3 minotaurs over 5.9 rounds with 25.92 DPR. [/B] I encourage you to play around with the script if you want to evaluate different levels, but I wanted to highlight two things about the results: 1.) Minotaurs are a particularly bad opponent for the shield guy. He is barely more survivable than the GWM guy (lasts 19 rounds before dying, vs. 18.2 for GWM guy) and he does less than half the damage over that time. 2.) If you ever fight three minotaurs at the same time, it doesn't matter whether you've got Shield Mastery or GWM or Heavy Armor Mastery or what. Just run away because they're going to kill you! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Barb vs Fighter vs Monk..vs Paladin!
Top