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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 8459886" data-attributes="member: 5889">So this result seems so stark that I need some people to check me on this, because if I'm right, the Enhanced Vitality ability compared to Preternatural Awareness just seems pretty weak.The two barb abilities are as follows:1) Enhanced Vitality: Barb can use con or armor bonus instead of dex save bonus when going against "dex save for half" abilities.2) Preternatural Evasion: On "dex save for half" abilities, take no damage on success, half on failure.The Most Extreme Example you Could ImagineSo lets assume an attack comes in doing 100 damage on a failure, or 50 on a success (the actual damage here doesn't matter for this comparison, this is just for a convenience).Lets take the absolute worst possible save bonus you could have, meaning you fail the save 95% of the time. But you have Preternatural Evasion.The average damage you would take is: 47.5.Now lets say you took Enhanced Vitality instead. And the bonus was MASSIVE.... so much that you now pass the save 95% of the time (aka the highest possible bonus you could ask for in an ability).The average damage you would take is: 52.5! EV is worse than PVA High End "Realistic Example"How about a more realistic example, that is still pretty extreme but is actually possible. Lets say base dex save had a 45% of success, and your con save was a solid +10 higher than that (8 dex vs 20 con, and +4 prof bonus to con...aka about as high as you would expect most of the time). So a 45% vs 95% chance of success. Its now 27.5 for PE, 52.5 for EV (PE cuts the damage in half practically).Conclusion: When it comes to damage mitigation, there is no scenario that PV is better than EV....none.The Other StuffOk, so Enhanced Vitality sucks at mitigating damage in comparison, full stop, no debate, no question. The other side of the coin are effects that save for half damage AND have some rider effect. Take a high level dragon breath weapon (Black Dragon as an example), its a dex save for half damage AND you are blind if you fail. Ok, EV will be better in those cases.I guess the question is how often are those going to occur?Doing a search of the monster book, there are 206 instances of dexterity saves being used. Of those, here are the monsters that have dex save for half effects that also have a rider if the fail the save.<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Planetar</td><td>prone</td></tr><tr><td>Bullette</td><td>prone</td></tr><tr><td>Spell-Warped Chuul</td><td>prone</td></tr><tr><td>Black dragon</td><td>Blind (5)</td></tr><tr><td></td><td>Ongoing Acid (2)</td></tr><tr><td>Blue Dragon</td><td>blind (1)</td></tr><tr><td></td><td>damage jumps to new target (2)</td></tr><tr><td></td><td>no Reaction (3)</td></tr><tr><td>Green Dragon</td><td>Poisoned (2)</td></tr><tr><td>Red Dragon</td><td>Ongoing Fire (5)</td></tr><tr><td>White dragon</td><td>Speed to 0 (2)</td></tr><tr><td>Earth Dragon</td><td>Blind (2)</td></tr><tr><td>River Dragon</td><td>Prone, Push 60</td></tr><tr><td></td><td>Prone, Push 30</td></tr><tr><td>Brass Dragon</td><td>blind (2)</td></tr><tr><td></td><td>Ongoing Fire (2)</td></tr><tr><td>Bronze Dragon</td><td>No Reaction (3)</td></tr><tr><td>Copper Dragon</td><td>Ongoing Acid (2)</td></tr><tr><td></td><td>Blind (2)</td></tr><tr><td>Gold Dragon</td><td>Speed to 0 (2)</td></tr><tr><td>Titanic Turtle</td><td>Blind</td></tr><tr><td>Marid</td><td>Push 20, Prone</td></tr><tr><td>Hill Giant</td><td>Prone</td></tr><tr><td>Half-Dragon</td><td>Ongoing Fire</td></tr><tr><td>Scorpion Folk</td><td>Poisoned</td></tr></table>Note that the vast vast majority of these are dragons (Young and older), so if you don't have a lot of dragons in your game, the benefit is not going to come up all that often.So based on my readings I just can't see every taking EV over PA. Do you agree, did I miss something, do you think these monster effects are strong enough to warrant the ability?</blockquote>

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