Barbarian is up!!!

[Wonka]

Wait..I forget (and don't have my books with me)..do temp HP stack? If not, then it's not so bad. If so, then barbarian + minions + great cleave = OH CRAP.

They do not stack.

Well, not really, because then you have the funkiness of getting a class feature at level 5 when no one else is getting a class feature.

The mechanic isn't the problem, the problem is that it's useless for four levels. Somehow solve that "uselessness" problem, and you've made me a happy camper.

The more I think about it, the more I think there should be a basic "rage" feature that isn't a daily attack. If you migrate the damage capacity from the abilities into this "rage" feature, the abilities don't look as sexy for multiclassing. Even if we get rid of Rage Strike entirely, the idea of moving the damage capacity from powers into a different feature is an important one.

While you get a class feature at 5, you are down one that you would otherwise have until that level. Balances out in my mind. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I have no problem with rage strike not being usable until level 5. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, since its not something Id use every fight anyway. However, it does seem to go against their design philosophy yes, so how about some sort of non daily rage, sort of a baby rage if you will until you hit 5 and can use the big boy rages? I dont WANT to get rid of rage strike, I love the mechanic as is. Its a weapon you wont always use, but when you need to goto it its there to be taken advantage of. The problem is then to make it useable for levels 1-4.

 

[I'm A Banana]

While you get a class feature at 5, you are down one that you would otherwise have until that level.

Right. That's why it's kludgy. Not unbalanced, but ugly. Not about power, but about how it feels to sit down and pick up the class. Feels like I'm being given a cookie and told I can't eat it.

 

[Cadfan]

Well, for one, I think this is why your Rogue shouldn't be too jealous. He'll be dancing around the swords of his enemy that the barbarian just runs through, impaling himself.

For two, I think Barbarians make up the difference mostly in getting those temp HP boosts. The time to get out of dodge is when you stop being able to kill things quickly, which means you might need some backup. At least for this build, anyway. When bodies aren't hitting the floor, yours might be soon.

I dunno. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what I should count as a "standard" build for a barbarian.

Here's what I get as likely numbers.

At level 1:
Rogue with leather armor: 16 AC
Barbarian with hide armor: 14 AC
Barbarian with chain armor: 16 AC
2HF Fighter with scale armor: 17 AC

At level 30
Rogue with starleather armor: 28 AC
Barbarian with elder hide armor: 22 AC
Barbarian with spiritmail armor: 28 AC
Fighter with elderscale armor: 29 AC

I think that chain is going to become a must-have feat. It costs one point of movement (not an important loss for a barbarian since his maneuverability is across the short range and based on powers with fixed movement distances), and one feat. The prereqs are not a concern. And at higher levels it produces an AC improvement of about 6.

 

[Wonka]

Right. That's why it's kludgy. Not unbalanced, but ugly. Not about power, but about how it feels to sit down and pick up the class. Feels like I'm being given a cookie and told I can't eat it.

Yup, I see where you are coming from. Perhaps adding some sort of class feature power that you can use SOLELY to power Rage Strike until you get your level 5 daily, at which point it becomes useless? Or perhaps making Rage Strike usable without expending a rage to do so, but at the cost of being only 1[W]+str damage or so? So its viable, but not overpowering. And then it just gets better once you can start expending rages to power it up. I dont know, just tossing out ideas

 

[Phaezen]

While you get a class feature at 5, you are down one that you would otherwise have until that level.

Right. That's why it's kludgy. Not unbalanced, but ugly. Not about power, but about how it feels to sit down and pick up the class. Feels like I'm being given a cookie and told I can't eat it.

All it is is a way that allows a barbarian to use multiple dailies. Instead of being in a situation where he would like to (or needs to) use a second daily attack to do big damage, but doesn't want to loose the advantage he is getting from the ongoing bonus from his first daily he can now spend the second daily just to do damage. This equates to all other classes being able to use multiple dailie attacks from level 5 without giving up an advantage.

Could possibly be put slightly better, but I don't think it is a problem, but rather fixes one.

Besides he gets some nice boosts to his atwills while raging.

Phaezen

 

[Wonka]

Phaezen, you left out the most important part of that statement in your quote, that I feel that balances out. I just want to repeat I have no issues with the ability as it is. I'm merely brainstorming possible changes with KM as what he sees as a problem.

 

[Phaezen]

Phaezen, you left out the most important part of that statement in your quote, that I feel that balances out. I just want to repeat I have no issues with the ability as it is. I'm merely brainstorming possible changes with KM as what he sees as a problem.

Blame hurried stealth posting at work

I just have the feeling that most people are missing the point of the class ability. So while it seems to do what is intented I don't know if WOTC should have try at rewording it so the intent of the power comes across better.

Phaezen

 

[Hadrian the Builder]

What about multiclassing from fighter and using a stance and a rage at the same time?

My gut tells me that this should not be, but do the rules specifically prevent it?

 

[Klaus]

THats one hell of a piece of artwork on the 2nd page there.

And it's a striker.

Sweet.

It is technically well-done but the proportions of the lead barbarian are all over the place, specially the ginormous head.

The "dwarf vs. orcs" picture is alright, specially the dwarf, but the orcs are very stiff, with distorted faces and undetailed arms.

The leaping woman in page 6 is almost perfect, but her stomach has too deep lumps, and her legs (specially the right one) are weirdly posed.

The picture on page 7 is the best of the bunch, but the armor should cover the same side of the body as the armor sleeve.

The picture on page 11 has really weird foreshortening, with the tiefling's arms being of unequal length and the dragon leg being almost elephantine.

 

[Cadfan]

Hadrian- the rules permit it. The barbarian already has his own stances. Not many of them, but there's one at level 10.

There are also some other "gain a benefit for the whole encounter" type abilities.