Barbarians without a Con score (Tallarn, keep out!)

[randomling]

So, one of my NPCs is an 8th-level Orc barbarian... who's been turned into a vampire. And I'm cool with that, really. I'm just wondering how to adjudicate his rage ability. Usually, this would give him a +4 to Con (among other things). But, duh, he's undead, he doesn't have a Con score!

So, DMs, would you:

1) Ignore the Con bonus completely.

2) Allow him an HP increase and bonus to Fort saves as if he had a Con bonus of +2.

3) Give him a penalty to HP and Fort saves, due to his new Con score of 4.

I prefer 1), personally (although 3) could be amusing). Anyone have any different ideas?

 

[hong]

By the book, 1) is correct. Also, the barb can only rage for 3 rounds, since he doesn't have a Con bonus.

 

[randomling]

Fair dos, then. That's what I thought.

Thanks, hong!

 

[Spuddy_Buddy]

Don't you use your charisma to determine rage duration if you don't have a constitution?

 

[Mr Fidgit]

Don't you use your charisma to determine rage duration if you don't have a constitution?

i think that's a popular house rule...

 

[Spuddy_Buddy]

Ah, okay then.

 

[Crothian]

This was actually covered in Sage Advice on Dragon, issue 305 I think.

 

[Gez]

Don't you use your charisma to determine rage duration if you don't have a constitution?

Considering we use Cha for everything save hit point bonus and fort save bonus -- I really don't know any other exception -- when Con is not there, I think it's more than a house rule.

There's no explicit rule on the subject, and Cha is what makes the most sense.

(Remember, undead and sentient construct use Cha for Concentration check, psychokynesis psionic discipline, poison DC, etc.)

 

[Zenon]

From the D&D MainFAQv01302003:

If a barbarian became undead (by gaining the vampire template, for example), how would you determine how long his rage lasts? He no longer has a Constitution score. Could an undead barbarian theoretically rage until all opponents were defeated or someone takes him down? Or does his rage simply last 3 rounds (base 3 + 0 for no Constitution score)? Or do you assume that the undead barbarian has a Constitution score of 4 (0 + 4 bonus from rage) and so cannot rage at all, since the modifier for an ability score of 4 is -3? Does this Constitution "boost" have any other effects on the undead barbarian? Does he actually lose hit points?

An undead creature uses its Charisma modifier wherever its Constitution modifier would normally apply (except Fortitude saving throws, for which the creature must use its +0 Constitution modifier if it needs to make a Fortitude save at all). Thus, the example barbarian rages for a number of rounds equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier (but always for at least 1 round). An undead creature has no Constitution score at all and cannot gain one by receiving a bonus. Therefore, the +4 Constitution bonus from rage has no effect on this barbarian.

 

[Spuddy_Buddy]

Thought so. I remember seeing it on the monte cook boards.