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Message: <blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 9511356" data-attributes="member: 59057">[USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER]I agree with your sentiment that the base bard class should be good at something. In the 5e case: spellcasting.In AD&D thief xp progression made sure they actually did not fall much behind a wizard in spellcasting at lower levels. They were about 0 to 1 spell level behind for a while*. So maybe just taking a level in fighter and then straight bard until level 1/8 will probably simulate AD&D better.*I looked the tables up. Neglecting bonus xp, my recollection  was close but not perfect.0 XP: wizard is one spell level ahead.1250XP: bard gets their first level.5kXP: both get level 2 spells.20k XP: wizards get level 3 spells40k XP: bard gets level 3 spells60k XP: wizards up to level 4 spells135k XP: wizards up to level 5 spells160k XP: bards get level 4 spells.660k XP: bards get level 5 spells750k XP: wizards get level 6 spells1500k XP: wizards get level 7 spells1540k XP: bards get level 6 spellsSo at level 3 wizard and bard 4, both get 2nd level spells at the same time. Only when the wizard gets level 9, they are actually 2 spell levels ahead for the next 25k XP. After that, bards actually catch up for the next 110k XP, because wizards need to be level 12 for 6th level spells in AD&D.  The last important breakpoint is 150k XP where wizards are ahead 2 spell levels once again for tiny 40k XP.So lets say for 5e, they start to fall behind the wizard at bard level 4 and once again at bard level 6.Also keeping in mind that spell power/duration was always level dependent, not spell level dependent, multiclassing with a half caster / full caster would allow them to keep their spell power/duration up at least. Actually bard fireballs hurt more for quite some levels.So the best progression would probably be:bard 1-3paladin 1 (caster level increase, weapon masteries)bard 4-6sorcerer 1 (emulating more spell power)bard 7-12sorcerer 2-7so we end up at level 12 bard, 1 paladin and level 7 sorcerer.Stat spread:13 Str14 Dex12 Con10 Int8 We15 ChaPaladin for 13 Str hurts.Maybe just scrap the one caster level from paladin and be a fighter instead. Also starting without spells is appropriate for the bard.So back tolevel 1 Fighterlevel 1 to 6 bardnow 1 level sorcererthen bard 7 - 12then sorcerer all the way up.Stat spread:Str 10Dex 14Con 12Int 13*Wis 8Cha 15*AD&D 2e required bards to have 13 int. That would actually allow them to take some wizard levels. But of course, at that point it bears the question: what is wrong about straight bard. If you want to be more martial orientated, be a valour Bard, use a feat for weapon mastery, maybe combar casting and divide points between Cha and Str/Dex</blockquote>

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