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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 6190431" data-attributes="member: 6750235">The chanting spells is why I think the sing and dancing stereo type&nbsp; is off base that a lot of players see the be bards.&nbsp; Even the&nbsp; performance has always been listed as including oration.&nbsp; I was&nbsp; expecting more of a 4E approach and was surprised things didn't go that&nbsp; way, but apparently there were a lot of players who do like having the&nbsp; song mechanics.&nbsp; Making the class distinctive is as easy as giving it a&nbsp; unique spell list and continued focus on the knowledge and social&nbsp; abilities.&nbsp; 4E bards&nbsp; heal and have some control spells still.2E did the same thing with the inclusion of a philosophy or ideal or&nbsp; universal principal.&nbsp; The 5E description making the same associations&nbsp; continues immediately afterward to stating the cleric is a conduit to&nbsp; the power of the gods.&nbsp; The spells rely on understanding the intuitive&nbsp; understanding of your god's wishes, the ability to attune yourself to&nbsp; your god's presence, and your zeal to impose your combined wills on the&nbsp; world.&nbsp; The description still for the spells list formulaic prayers or&nbsp; ancient rites, and the the cleric class abilities add a mechanic to&nbsp; request divine intervention.&nbsp; The descriptions and mechanics make it&nbsp; hard to disassociate the clerics from religion, although a solitary&nbsp; chosen one concept as opposed organized religions seems easy, or a&nbsp; hermetic prophet (getting back to design space overlap).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 6190431, member: 6750235"] The chanting spells is why I think the sing and dancing stereo type is off base that a lot of players see the be bards. Even the performance has always been listed as including oration. I was expecting more of a 4E approach and was surprised things didn't go that way, but apparently there were a lot of players who do like having the song mechanics. Making the class distinctive is as easy as giving it a unique spell list and continued focus on the knowledge and social abilities. 4E bards heal and have some control spells still. 2E did the same thing with the inclusion of a philosophy or ideal or universal principal. The 5E description making the same associations continues immediately afterward to stating the cleric is a conduit to the power of the gods. The spells rely on understanding the intuitive understanding of your god's wishes, the ability to attune yourself to your god's presence, and your zeal to impose your combined wills on the world. The description still for the spells list formulaic prayers or ancient rites, and the the cleric class abilities add a mechanic to request divine intervention. The descriptions and mechanics make it hard to disassociate the clerics from religion, although a solitary chosen one concept as opposed organized religions seems easy, or a hermetic prophet (getting back to design space overlap). [/QUOTE]

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