D&D 5E Bard as a subclass

I want the bard to be

  • a class with a bunch of entertainer types under it

    Votes: 41 70.7%
  • a subclass of a greater arcane gish type class

    Votes: 17 29.3%


First Post
Can we please open the warrior/arcane caster up to more than just a singing and dancing guy? Then stick the bard under it! The arcane gish class is such a utilized fictional category of characters. However D&D has always required multi-classing to achieve it, other than 1e where the ranger got M-U spells. So I dont want to minimize the importance of the bard. Which has existed in 3 out of 4 PHB1s which is way more than barbarian 1 out of 4 or monk 2 out of 4. So bard can be a build of the arcane gish class. I would absolutely think this was fantastic.

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Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Really? You're not even considering a "something else" category?

I can see the Bard as a subclass, but not of an arcane gish.
Better (for me) would be a class embracing the inspiring combat support, with options of Warlord, Marshal (as in 3.0), and Bard.


First Post
Given that the bard is not an arcane warrior/caster, I'd say no. The bard is more of an enchanter/illusionist combined with a rogue with some quasi-divine stuff thrown in. It's not really a warrior.

The warrior mage is a separate issue.

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Let's assume Mearls has an open mind and is interested in the honest exchange of ideas, responding to a range of opinions and the actual experience of playtesting.

We'll see the final game when it comes. In the meantime, it is entirely legitimate to consider possibilities other than what has been stated in tweets blog posts. We can (and should) still consider the merits of an idea, and not simply fall back on blind devotion or personality cult.


Steeliest of the dragons
I think it more appropriate that the "gish"/warrior-mage...shall we call it, perhaps, a "swordmage"?...would be a subclass of the Bard class.

I think the Bard should be presented with, as they've already said, the "Warlord" variant and then a/the "Swordmage" variant for a more specific "gish" class that ditches the harps and skills for combat prowess and weaving magic through their weapons instead of through their music.

The "default" Bard class being the rogue-musician skill- and lore-master with minor access to enchanter, illusion, divine and druidic spells to play up the "jack of all trades" (in magic as well as skills).

So given the...severely limited...options of the poll, I have no actual answer to put forward.

I'm A Banana

Cleric is the original gish, and will always be the Real And True Gish in my mind.

Want a guy who is good in melee combat and also uses magic? Cleric, man. Want him to use Magic Missiles instead of Cure Light Wounds and swear a pact with a demon or study a tome instead of worship a god? Okay, whatever, sure, don't care.

Greg K

For 2e and 3e, I do not consider the Bard a warrior, but closer to the rogue (and as mentioned upthread, it was a rogue associated class in 2e). My preference for the Bard is for it to be its own class and there being a Skald warrior bard subclass.

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