Bard resources, discussions

Ruined

Explorer
Hello folks. Anyone have any links to good resources or discussions about using Bards effectively in dungeon settings? A player of mine is currently 9th lvl in my Age of Worms campaign, and he's suffering in the combat scenes. He's not as experienced of a player and is cool about advice, so I'd like to help him optimize his character outside of city social encounters. He's tried a lvl of Warchanter, but the song talents there seem geared more for large armies (giving +2 hp to all members of your party seems insignificant when you're 9th lvl).

Point me to some cool bards!!

Thanks.
 

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Seeker of the Song and Sublime Chord (both from Complete Arcane) are fun. Also, Lyric Thaumaturge from Complete Mage is worth a look.

My only other suggestion is to take two levels of Marshal. +(Cha bonus) to Dex based skills and Initiative as well as a +1 to hit all the time are always useful abilities.

-TRRW
 


I think the player needs to have a focus on what he wants to do in combat. A bard has a support role, they are not a strait up fighter or sneak attacking rogue or a damaging spellcaster. It is just not their nature to do HP damage themselves.

The main options are probably:
pepper spellcasters, leaders etc with missle fire. Or move up to them and deny them chances to cast spells.
Use aid another, flanking (with fighting defensively), or reach weapons to aid party memebers.
Get spells like Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Glitterdust etc that can take out opponents that fail their save, and boost the DC of those saves where possible.

Another good PrC to me is the Dragonsong Lyrist (Draconomicon), can boost STR by 4, allow flight for a short time and a couple of other things, looses out on spells a bit though.

Ruined, I'm assuming that you are the DM soo here is something for you (just note that I haven't played AoW): sonic locks (need music, singing, tune to open), negating sonic abilites (harpies etc) can allow the bard to shine. Bardic Knowledge for useful info always helps (if the player doesn't already use this). Have something that only the bard can do (and hope they do it ;) ).

I currently have a bard character in a game, and I think the trick is a slight shift in approach: Any boosting of your party that leads to a kill is partially your kill. A save v spell that the PC would not make is almost the same as having the caster waste a spell. Preventing party memebers from getting hurt keeps them alive and able to hurt others (more partial kills for the bard). I've been able to make a major damage dealing foe helpless with laughter so others can bash them without getting hurt. Boosted STR to help damage foes in large battles. Greased entryways to hinder people getting through doors. Kept PC's standing via healing to lay the hurt on our foes. These are the things a bard does. and he can even sing for his supper. :)
 

der_kluge said:
Sorry. The only truly effective bard is one that multi-classes into something else every other level! :eek:

I definitely don't think that's true. Quite the opposite IMO. Bards have a delayed spell progression so you definitely don't want to slow it down anymore.

Bards make fairly effective archers. I'm playing one now and gave him Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot at 1st level (human) and Precise Shot at 3rd. Pretty much all you need to be an effective archer.

I also focus on crowd control spells: grease, Tasha's laughter, glitterdust, etc.

Between party buff songs, CC spells, using wands, and arching, I have plenty to do in combat.
 

Proper feat/spell selection can help a lot too.

I definately suggest taking a long look at the Melodic Casting feat from Complete Mage. It allows you to cast spells and activate command word magic items will maintaining bard song.

Also, take a look at the Inspirational Boost spell from Spell Compendium. It boosts the effectiveness of the Inspire Courage bard song. As an 8th level bard using this, he can give all his allies +3 to hit and damage for the duration of the combat. Your allies should *love* you for that.


Another trick to try is get a whip. Probably not strong enough for effective trips, but the disarm possibilities are great. Take the evil clerics holy symbol, the opposing mages wand, etc. Also, you can use it to aid another on the big bads to give your tank some help. Plus since you're 15 feet away, and not actually doing any damage to the bad guy, you're a lot more likely to get ignored.
 

dsolodow said:
Also, take a look at the Inspirational Boost spell from Spell Compendium. It boosts the effectiveness of the Inspire Courage bard song. As an 8th level bard using this, he can give all his allies +3 to hit and damage for the duration of the combat. Your allies should *love* you for that..

What he said, basically a required spell for Bards.
 

Yupp, Inspirational Boost, then get that feat that lets you cast spells with Bardic music uses per day, get one or two items that enhance your bardic song and: Be an archer.

The ultimate bard archer takes 4 fighter levels for WS and RWM (and BAB +16 at high levels). Haste (better: Boots of Speed! You need your first standard action for the bards song) and as many wands of Flame Arrow plus energy substituted Flame Arrows and he can shoot down dragons all by himself assuming his strength is high enough (around 18) to use a composite bow to good effect.
 

Thanks for the advice thus far. I'll point him in the direction of some of the feats and PrCs and we'll probably rework his character a bit. I think the crowd control tactic works well for him, as he's used Tasha's laughter on a few occasions, and I'll suggest the Fascinate route as well. His bardic songs really have helped the group get through some rough spots, but its hard to see when it doesn't kill mobs or save him from the beatings I'm known to give out in this campaign.

Archery may also be a good option, but we have a Soulbow in party. We'll see how that looks.
 

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