Basic D&D/D20 setting: Single vs. multiple Pantheons

[SWBaxter]

I don't think either option is wrong in general. In your case specifically, starting from the creation of the world and filling in history from there is a relatively tall order, I'd probably go with a single pantheon to simplify that end of the workload. I personally think that alignment concepts are the easiest to graft onto by-the-book D&D, and there's a few different ways to tackle that:

Four or five gods, one for each alignment component - Good, Evil, Law, Chaos, and possibly Neutrality.
Four or five gods for the "extreme" alignments - Lawful Good, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Evil, and possibly True Neutral.
Nine gods, one for each aligment.

If you go the multiple pantheon route, I would probably tend towards a relatively small pantheon for each major species - say 4-5 gods for each of them - plus some kind of overdeity who created the whole thing but otherwise doesn't interfere (and may not actually be known to mortals at all).

 

[Nyaricus]

Personally, I voted for "multipl pantheons". Personally, I see no reaons why your world's greeks can worship the greek patheons, the celts the celtic pantheon the norse the norse gods, the aegyptians the aegyptians gods, etc etc etc.

In any case, I once posted here on reducing the number of gods in Faerun, and thought that it was at least nominally a good idea and not too much of an tangent, so here's my whole post for your reference:

[sblock]20-30 deities... *rolls up sleeves*... lets see what we can do here...

okay, first off, we want the 4 elemental lords and ladies:

Akadi (air)
Grumbar (earth)
Istishia (water)
Kossuth (fire)

reasoning: D&D puts a lot of importance into the elements, so we might as well get 'em out of the way, right? Eldath and Umberlee were both subsumed by Istishia and Talos (with Talos getting the destructive part of the portfolio) during an epic battle during the time of troubles in which Istishia took them both out. Likewise, Valkur was killed during the Time of Troubles and Istishia again stepped in and took his portfolio - though Talos nabbed some of his followers too. They are all still Greater Gods.

Then we have the seasonal deities:

Auril (winter)
Lathander (spring)
Chauntea (summer)
Mielikki (autumn)

reasoning: it only makes sense to have a god for every season: so here they are. Ulutiu was finally killed by Auril. Lurue was subsumed by Mielikki after being killed by Malar during the Time of Troubles. Auril is now a Intermediate God, Mielikki is still Intermediate, Lathander is Still a Greater God and Chauntea is still Greater as well.

Then we have the gods of life and death:

Lathander (life)
Kelemvor (death)

reasoning: people are born and people do die, so these gods make sense. Jergals portfolio gets subsumed by Kelemvor, after he finally relinquishes his deity-hood. Both are still Greater Gods.

Then we have the deities of the sun and the moon:

Lathander (sun)
Selune (moon)

reasoning: these are around as well, so these deities stay. Lathander is a Greater God, Selune is still Intermediate.

Then we have the deities of good and bad luck:

Beshaba (bad)
Tymora (good)

Alternatively, you could use the old deity Tyche which was both good and bad luck before being split in half. Both are still Intermediate. If using Tyche, then Greater.

The we have the gods of Justice and of Tyranny:

Torm
Bane

reasoning: these two had the big duke-out in the Time of Troubles, so ret-con it and say that Torm took over the Triad when he fought Bane, and the two other gods gave Torm all their power and their portfolios too - and a bunch of minor deities helped out as well. Thus, Torm has taken over Tyr, Imater, Red Knight and Siamorphe. During the battle Bane forced Gargauth and Loviatar to give him their powers during this battle, and even killed Oghma to try to find out how to kill Torm - though he still lost in the end (Azuth came and got the knowledge part of the portfolio before Bane could and Bane didn't want any of the other parts of the portfolio). Bane was pretty peeved at this, and after he killed and took over from his son, Iyachtu Xvim, Bane killed Hoar and took on the portfoilos of revenge and retribution. Torm has now swelled up to being a Greater God from a Lesser, and Bane is still a Greater God.

*whew* that was a good 10 gods and goddess down

Then we have some nature deities:

Malar
Shaundakul
Talos
Silvanus

Malar killed many during the Time of Troubles: Shillia and Lurue first, whos portfolios were largely taken by Chauntea, as well as Nobanion and Sharess who were making kittens in a thicket when Malar came in and slaughtered them. He then went down to Chult and ripped out Ubtaos heart at the top of a pyramid, taking over his portfolios.
Shaundakul subsumed both Finder and Gwaeron throughout the Time of Troubles, when it became apparent that they wouldn't be able to defend themselves if they ran into Malar.
Talos took over much of Umberlees church when she was killed by Istishia, and even siphoned off a bit of Valkurs more... careless followers.
Silvanus witnessed Malar killing Shillia, but he could not (or would not, perhaps) help the dying goddess. He took over her portfolio, increasing his patronism of woodlands and foirests.
Malar is now a Greater God alongside Talos and Silvanus, and Shaundakul is still intermediate - though his church has grown a bit.

Then we have a bunch of disjointed, but important deitites:

Azuth

Mystra was infact killed during the time of troubles, but was mostly dissolved into the weave. Azuth took out Velsharoon (though Shar took his portfolios) at this point and took out Savras as well, forcing him back into that staff of his. When Oghma (who had since subsumed Deneir, who despaired at not being able to be at his scribing table in The House of Knowledge and committed dei-suicide) was killed by Bane (who hoped to find the knowledge on how to kill Torm), Azuth came by and snatched the knowledge part of his portfolio, as well as all of Deneirs. His church has swelled up to be one of the largest in Faerun, contested only by Bane, Cyric, Lathander and Torm. *Done, done, done, done and done.*

Cyric

Cyric really went psycho and killed off quite a few gods and goddesses in the Time of Troubles. Among them were Mask and Talona. Now, Cyric is even more powerful with thievery and poison in his portfolio.

Tempus

Tempus came upon Garagos and Uthgar fighting during the Time of Troubles and stood aside as the combatants fought. Uthgar eventually killed Garagos and took his portfolio and in a rage immediately attacked Tempus - who fought a harried battle which he finally won. He is still a Greater God.

Gond

When Oghma was killed by Bane, Oghma took over the Inspiration and Invention parts of his portfolio, and his church is flourishing now. He is still an intermediate deity, but is on the verge of becoming a Greater God.

Milil

Milil is much the same as before the time of troubles, but he is a much more reserved now that both Deneir and Oghma are gone. He took in many of Oghma's and Deneir's bardic followers and his church has been doing quite well since - so much so that Milil is now and Intermediate God.

Shar

Shar is still here, lurking and waiting. She is happy that he eternal foe Mystra is now finally gone, but is seething with rage to see how well Azuths church is doing - though she smiles at the fact that she stole Velsharoons portfolio. She eyes Cyric very closely now, waiting for her chance to take him out and become more powerful, and she is likewise angry at the fact that he killed both Mask and Talona without her even having a chance at them (she was in particular eyeing Talona, for her poisons). With followers growing from Velsharoon and her Shadow Weave users, she is content that her church is safe... for now.

Sune

Sune is still her beautiful, perfect self, but she is a little more cautious in how attached she gets to her lovers, now that more than half her clientele has been killed in one way or another.

Waukeen

Waukeen's church is thriving off of all the new gold coming in from Maztica, and is likewise very close to Helms church now, who are one of the main forces in Maztica at this time. Still an Intermediate Goddess.

Helm

Helm is the same old Iron-clad warrior he always was, and he maintains his section of deity hood as vigilant as ever.[/sblock]

 

[Terwox]

Hate to be contrary, but I'm a fan of no pantheon.

The gods are gone or never existed, and there is no objective creation myth -- but people believe a lot of different things.

I suppose that's somewhat like multiple pantheons, but all divine magic is simply faith based. If I had to choose though, I'd take a single pantheon, so that's what I voted.

 

[Feldspar]

If you are starting with a new world, a single pantheon is easier to work with and work around. That doesn't mean that they can't still have religious strife. Just look at how many wars have been fought over the 'correct' way to worship YHWH/God/Allah in this world - despite most of those religions openly accepting that they follow the same deity. In a world where they are not necessarily aware of that you could make the situation even worse - especially if the deities are distant and communicate mostly through portents, signs, and other less readily legible / understandable forms of communication.

Perhaps the Orcs worship deity A and look upon deity B as a dangerous trickster figure that tries to draw them away from the worship of deity A and towards a weaker lifestyle that breeds only those unable to survive the harshness of their environment. Perhaps the Elves look upon deity B as a benevolent / protective deity and deity A as a savage deity of ill repute - rarely worshipped except for appeasement. Both sides can be right, after all, making the situation even more complex. Perhaps the Elves ever 'recognize' that the deity B worshipped by some uncommon orcs is 'allied' with their own deity B, not fully realizing that they are the same deity. (Well, the higher ranking clergy might realize it, but it was common in ancient times for religions to have Mysteries that were only known to the clergy - esp the highest ranking clergy.)

I've played around with these same ideas myself, but ...

Kalamar uses such a system incidentally - of a single pantheon with different names in different cultures / races.

... I have to disagree with the notion that Kalamar provides that (same god, worshipped or percieved in different ways by different cultures). As far as I can tell, the only thing that differs from race to race is the god's name. The fact that The Flaymaster is known to the Brandobian humans as Elnamna, to Dejy humans as Slen, to Elves as Beraendar and to Hobgoblins as Patukk-Ro-Tirnog is academic. Even The Flaymaster is just one of several titles given to this god (Ice Heart, Slowdeath, the Hood, the Prince of Suffering, The Cruel Master, etc). But whatever you call him, in whatever language, its still the same god with the same alignment, sphere's of influence and agenda.

Actually, that was part of my problem with Kalamar's evil faiths - for many of them, it didn't seem like it would matter what culture you could have come from, you'd have to be a complete psycopath to want to worship that god and carry out its directives. Regardless of the culture you're from or in, if you're a cleric of the Rotlord you are infected with a contagious disease so that you may spread deadly contagion to all you meet. Weeding out the weak can't really justify them having any kind of high status among orc or goblin types either - they're so corrosive that I think they'd inevitably cannibalize the culture they're in if left unsupressed.

 

[Feldspar]

Hate to be contrary, but I'm a fan of no pantheon.

The gods are gone or never existed, and there is no objective creation myth -- but people believe a lot of different things.

I suppose that's somewhat like multiple pantheons, but all divine magic is simply faith based. If I had to choose though, I'd take a single pantheon, so that's what I voted.

That's pretty much what I'm trying to create for my homebrew. In mine, some believe that the complex and convoluted ritual prayers used by Clerics are merely a different way to bind and make use of the same magic forces tapped into by arcane casters. Clerics take it on faith that in fact a greater power has responded to a ritualized plea and granted them their powers.

I want to have all kinds of different faiths and creation beliefs and set things up (in terms of gods, spells, etc) so that no one can prove or disprove any belief system.

I've got monotheistic Dwarves who were created to help their god forge the world but were cast out for the crime of attempting to imitate his work while he rested - some even think that the whole race will be taken back if they just clean up and wipe out their mistakes: orcs, goblinoids and giants. Others think that a life spent perfecting their craft will grant them readmittance to the forge upon their death. As they do not expect their god to answer prayers they have no clerics - but they do have Shugenjas (renamed and Dwarf flavored) who manipulate the base elements of life to craft spells. Favored classes of Shugenja, Artificer and Fighter.

I've got zen-hippy-jedi Elves who think that they are near the highest state reincarnated state and that further progress will free them from the mortal coil to unite and become part of the great world spirit which created and is everything. And they believe that to touch magic is to touch, experience and commune with that spirit. Some seek inwards unlocking sorcerous powers; others follow a druidic tradition seeking outwards to try to experience and gain a perfect understanding of nature. Still others look for transendence not by trying to manipulate magic to their ends, but by developing inner powers and physical perfection. Favored classes of Druid, Sorceror and Monk.

I've got vision questing Gnomes whose lives and society are strongly influenced by learning from burrowing creatures - both real and from the spirit world. Favored classes of Spirit Shaman, Wu Jen and Scout.

And then, of course, lots of different pantheons that people believe in. And with that you get syncretic faiths, atheists and agnostics and everything else feel like throwing in.

Eberron has fairly distant gods and has some cool things with regards to planes and outsider creature types that I may have to steal and adapt. I still need to figure out how much of that stuff to fit in (how could we live without Slaad) - all while removing the alignment system. Still have tons of work ahead of me.

Hmmm, not really something that would work for a "basic setting" is it

 

[Cergorach]

I have to admit that a single pantheon makes live a lot less complex on the design side of the campaign.

For a single pantheon i am toying with the OGC from the Book of the Righteous. While leaving an option to get some of the gods from other OGC sources becoming saints/vasals and demon princes (queen of spiders for example).

Very few mortals directly interact with the gods or their other worldly servants, even very few clerics see direct manifestations of the gods work. Most spells and supernatural abilities clerics manifest can be explained away as a different kind of magic, like that of a mage or bard. There will always be powergroups that want to see the influence of the churches and the gods minimized, powerful wizard guilds, kings, and demon princes (to name a few). There will be doubt in the common commoner, that is what faith is. If you actually have met god then it stops being believing or having faith, it becomes fact...

Will have to work on the presentation of beliefs, instead of saying "There are gods.", it needs to be more along the lines "Most people believe there are gods.", while at the same time presenting points of view that refute the existence of the gods. While it is a subtle difference, it leaves open a lot of options for plots and intrigue down the line.

 

[howandwhy99]

My advice is "Do what you think will work best". But that's really specific to everything you're trying to convey with the game.

What I voted for is "Multiple Pantheons", though. If you are going for real-world similarity, different cultures have different pantheons on Earth. Just start your PCs off in one culture with one pantheon and you should be okay. More can always be added later.

Greyhawk mixes 4 major human pantheons, +1 pantheon for each of the civilized long-lived demi-human races, a jumble of common gods with unknown roots, monster gods, and even non-dieties (who are worshipped like dieties, but are Archfiends for instance).

I'm not saying you need to do this. But A or B thinking isn't the only way to go.

EDIT: "Religion" is a nebulous concept on Earth. Many major religions don't have "Gods". Maybe other cultures' clerics are the Monk class?