Basic D&D rides again!

[jrients]

The rulebooks are reference manuals. You're suppossed to look things up as the need arises. Learning the rules themselves isn't as hard as it seems, since the most common rules used are also the most basic ones; thus I see no need for a basic set. WOTC's take on the issue may well be worth the effort, but I doubt it.

The marketing advantage of a Basic set seems pretty clear to me. First off, remember that the average non-gamer thinks of a "game" as something that comes complete in a box. (And remember, even after dropping ninety bucks on three big books you still can't play D&D.) Second, just because the core mechanic is simple that doesn't mean someone can tell that by looking at these freaking huge volumes. Most non-gamers don't even know what a "core mechanic" is.

Compare:

"Here, kid, play this box. Come back if you have any questions or when you finish it."

vs.

"Okay. You need a Player's Handbook. Do you have a DM? I mean Dungeon Master. He's the guy who runs the game. No? Here, just take the DMG too. If your the first in your group to buy the rules, you'll probably end up the DM anyway. And you'll need a Monster Manual. Oh, I better get you some dice, too. Do you have a favorite color? And you'll need a good starter module too..."

 

[thalmin]

The rulebooks are reference manuals. You're suppossed to look things up as the need arises. Learning the rules themselves isn't as hard as it seems, since the most common rules used are also the most basic ones; thus I see no need for a basic set. WOTC's take on the issue may well be worth the effort, but I doubt it.

For a brand new player who wants to play his first game, where does he start? There is no 20 page Read-this-and-start-playing section. The last couple of intro sets for D&D provided exactly that. No character creation rules. Here are some characters, here's what each can do. For the first-time player/dm, here is an adventure, and how to run it. With all the needed monsters, counters, dice, and map. All for a give-it-a-try price of about $10. Start playing within about 30 minutes after opening the box, it includes everything needed but pencils and Cheetos.
The intro sets are not for US, they are for THEM, so they can join US.

 

[KB9JMQ]

The intro sets are not for US, they are for THEM, so they can join US.

This is why I hope it does well.

 

[jasamcarl]

Every time I hear someone tell me how simple the 3.0/3.5 system is, I wonder why it then takes 1,000 pages to explain it?

The answer, of course, is that while most of the concepts are simple, the shear volume of details, options, exceptions, etc. can be overwhelming. If WOTC can keep those core concepts, but cut out a lot of the minutia, more power to them. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

I think most people, even the begginers, are cool-headed enough not to become 'scared' by a lot of the options. The first few chapters in the phb are pretty comprehensive and simple in laying out character creation. Most of the scary options of which you speak involve spells and complex combat stuff like bull rushes and grapples, none of which has much play in a 1st level session where you are killing goblins. At early levels, the game is very simple.

 

[thalmin]

I think most people, even the begginers, are cool-headed enough not to become 'scared' by a lot of the options. The first few chapters in the phb are pretty comprehensive and simple in laying out character creation. Most of the scary options of which you speak involve spells and complex combat stuff like bull rushes and grapples, none of which has much play in a 1st level session where you are killing goblins. At early levels, the game is very simple.

It's not that it "scares" them, it overwhelms them. How do you wade through all the stuff you don't need? Pick up the PHB, you have 30 minutes to read it, then start playing. Where do you start? The core books provide information overload to a newbie that wants to start playing. The bare-bone necessities are not pointed out. That's what the starter box is for.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

All this talk of the Basic set had me haul out my old red box set and read through it. It's absolutely brilliant. Makes me glad that I had something like that to start with. If all I'd of had was the PHB, DMG, and MM, I don't think I would have ever really got the hang of it or, really, even starting it. I remember opening the box and thinking, "Now I can pllllaaaaay!"

So, IMO, a basic set is definitely needed. Or how about a "Starter Set"? I know that if kids are even anywhere near like I was, it'll be the stepping stone needed to get into the hobby without the Big-Book-Shell-Shock (BBSS).

 

[jasamcarl]

It's not that it "scares" them, it overwhelms them. How do you wade through all the stuff you don't need? Pick up the PHB, you have 30 minutes to read it, then start playing. Where do you start? The core books provide information overload to a newbie that wants to start playing. The bare-bone necessities are not pointed out. That's what the starter box is for.

Easy. From the introduction and then step by step through character creation. Or do you all just flip randomly through the pages until you have a Eureka moment? I suppose it could be confusing if you used the books stupidly.

Where I think a basic set really has value is in the time issue. Its a question of prep time, not of confusing complexity.

 

[thalmin]

Easy. From the introduction and then step by step through character creation. Or do you all just flip randomly through the pages until you have a Eureka moment? I suppose it could be confusing if you used the books stupidly.

Where I think a basic set really has value is in the time issue. Its a question of prep time, not of confusing complexity.

But character creation takes time, and isn't needed to play. Someone new wants to start playing right away, not spend their first hour preparing to play, after reading the rules. The starter gives a choice of several ready-made characters. Using a starter set to teach the game to a group of jr. high kids, I got them playing a game within 10 minutes of arriving at the table. All I added to the set were pencils, extra dice, and photocopies of the provided characters. None of them had ever played before. They had seen Fellowship of the Ring.

 

[The Sigil]

For a brand new player who wants to play his first game, where does he start? There is no 20 page Read-this-and-start-playing section. The last couple of intro sets for D&D provided exactly that. No character creation rules. Here are some characters, here's what each can do. For the first-time player/dm, here is an adventure, and how to run it. With all the needed monsters, counters, dice, and map. All for a give-it-a-try price of about $10. Start playing within about 30 minutes after opening the box, it includes everything needed but pencils and Cheetos.
The intro sets are not for US, they are for THEM, so they can join US.

Bingo.

Take a look at this poll I did a while back... http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44019

This tells me that while the "bell curve" of the current gamer population is dominated by late-twenty-somethings and thirty-somethings, this is NOT indicative of the age at which most people "discover" roleplaying. That age is rather heavily skewed around the "late elementary school-to-junior high" age. Which, I suppose, makes some sense... that's typically when you're imaginative, and you're still being encouraged to BE imaginative and have fun... and you have LOTS and LOTS of free time. By the time you get to high school, with sports or drama or chess club or band or any of a host of other activities, your free time goes down. You no longer have recess. You're being encouraged to WORK and GET READY FOR ADULTHOOD.

The Basic Set was not specifically written for pre-teens, I don't think - but it was comprehensible and accessible for them. By setting up large, expensive, and complex rulebooks, we set the "entry bar" higher. Set the bar too high, and younger folks simply CAN'T clear the bar... and if we set it up to the point that it's highly unusual to see a junior high-schooler who can clear the bar (without experienced help), the hobby loses most of its potential "new blood."

Nobody's suggesting that "since most start playing young, everything should be written so that they can understand it." Rather, the suggestion is, "if we want new blood in the hobby, SOMETHING has to be written so that they can understand it while they're young."

--The Sigil

 

[MerricB]

Bingo.

Take a look at this poll I did a while back... http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44019

I'd forgotten about that - and I voted in it.

The Basic Set was not specifically written for pre-teens, I don't think - but it was comprehensible and accessible for them. By setting up large, expensive, and complex rulebooks, we set the "entry bar" higher. Set the bar too high, and younger folks simply CAN'T clear the bar... and if we set it up to the point that it's highly unusual to see a junior high-schooler who can clear the bar (without experienced help), the hobby loses most of its potential "new blood."

An excellent statement. I fully agree with it.

Cheers!