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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9170413" data-attributes="member: 6801228">So, I just ended up finishing the survey for the Bastion rules, and that led me to realizing that... some of them make you  WORSE at doing the thing you are trying to do.By a lot. Let's take the Smithy. At 5th level, you can choose to get a smithy, and this allows you to make weapons and armor. You can do the following: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">7 days --> Create 20 pieces of ammunition or one simple weapon at half cost. Make ONE of the following at half cost: 20 Caltrops, a Chain (10feet), a Crowbar, a Grappling Hook, a Hammer (regular or sledge), 4 horseshoes, a Hunting Trap, a set of Manacles, a Miner’s Pick, 10 Iron Spikes or Pitons, an Iron Pot, a metal Shield, or a Shovel.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">14 days --> Make a martial weapon at half cost or make a Masterwork simple weapon for 800 gp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">21 days --> Make a suit of medium or heavy armor, or a Masterwork Martial weapon for 800 gp</li> </ul>Hey, here's something fun. Ever heard of Xanathar's? The Crafting rules in Xanathar's says that if you borrow a forge from someone you can craft 50 gp of items in a five day workweek. That week you spend ordering your people to make 10 ft of chain? In that same week you could make EVERYTHING from that week list including the simple weapon and the ammo. What about Martial weapons? Literally any of them in the work week, and actually multiple of them depending (can only make one greatsword, but you can make 10 shortswords). Oh, also? Chain Shirt, Scale Mail, and Ring mail only take a week, with Chain Mail taking a week and half. Literally twice as fast as the Smithy. Now, it COULD be useful for making Breastplate, halfplate, splint or full plate, as those do actually take longer, but that is literally it. Well, what about the Masterwork weapons? Those can be turned into magic items with a spell, so that has to be worth it right? Actually... no. See, not only is the Masterwork not a magical weapon, but needs a spell to make it one, but it only becomes a +1 Weapon. A +1 Weapon is an uncommon magic item, which means if you look in the current DMG it is worth between 100 and 500 gold. So why in the WORLD are you being charged 800 gold for a proto-magical weapon? It should be like 100 gold max. And this continues into the Potion making Lab and the Scroll making scriptorium. Here are the prices from the DMG next to the prices from the Bastion rules <table style='width: 100%'><tr><th>DMG</th><th>Bastion</th></tr><tr><td>25 - 50</td><td>50</td></tr><tr><td>50 - 250</td><td>200</td></tr><tr><td>250 - 2,500</td><td>2,000</td></tr><tr><td>2,500 - 25,000</td><td>20,000</td></tr><tr><td>25,000+</td><td>100,000</td></tr></table>At every single turn, the Bastion rules are charging in the top percentage, regardless of the actual item you are making, until you get to the Legendary options which are four times more than the standard price. It is ludicrous</blockquote>

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