D&D (2024) Bastion rules: every pub owner is at least 13th level

[Epic Meepo]

This one sentence from the new Bastion rules guarantees those rules will never see use in my game: "Unlike basic facilities, special facilities can’t be bought; a character gains them through level advancement." Note that "special facilities" include Stables (minimum character level 9th) and Pubs (minimum character level 13th). So why can't my 8th-level character with 10,000 gp build Stables? I can't think of any reasonable in-game explanation. Some sort of multiverse-wide zoning restriction, maybe?

The real answer is that Stables provide arbitrary in-game mechanical benefits not appropriate for characters below 9th-level. Stables generate Bastion Points, or BP (not to be confused with the BP you use to build things in Paizo's Kingmaker adventure path). For various implausible reasons, characters can use BP to acquire magic items. Apparently, Stables (with a capitol "S") are some sort of magical Platonic object which exist beyond the confines of Euclidean geometry and in-game economics.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that D&D rules aren't designed to model any sort of economy in a realistic way. In-game transactions are just abstractions designed to make for entertaining game-play. That being said, I do at least expect there to be some sort of in-game currency which characters can use to purchase or build everyday objects like stables and pubs. In my humble opinion, Stables and Pubs shouldn't be de facto magic items which exist outside the gold-piece economy.

 

[Imaro]

You do realize your players can own non-Bastion versions of those... right? There's even rules in the DMG for running them as businesses.

 

[Reynard]

Not every pub is a Pub.

 

[DEFCON 1]

It's like the difference between the Beastmaster Ranger's pet and any PC just buying a pet at a pet shop. One has game mechanic benefits, the other is just narrative flourish.

 

[Epic Meepo]

You do realize your players can own non-Bastion versions of those... right? There's even rules in the DMG for running them as businesses.

There are rules for running businesses in the 2014 DMG. I certainly hope the Bastion rules aren't intended to replace those existing rules in the 2024 DMG.

 

[Stalker0]

My initial thoughts on Bastions:

• The Bastion Points seem like needless tracking. All they do is just give players a magic item, and you can only do that at a level. So...just cut out the middle man and say the players get a magic item at a certain level from their bastion, but no more than every "6 months or year, or whatever game time roughly tracks with the magic item cost).
• I personally hate the idea of spending gold on "cosmetics" aka basic facilities. Its your video game spending gold on dyes kind of thing, if it doesn't have mechanics than don't give it cost. Just say that a player can add in a new basic facilities every X days, and then players can just customize the way they want. If it doesn't impact the mechanics, than don't limit it.
  • Note, this continues to the be the issue with 5e's gold. Its not that people didn't have things to spend gold on, I mean there has been ale and whores forever. The problem is "meaningful" expenditures, and right here we have another meaningless one.
• The special facilities seem pretty cool, though I think getting no new ones until you have gone through 4 levels might feel a bit aggravating to some people. but yet most of them give a nice but not too nice benefit, they have solid understanding of how long it takes and how often you can do it. The meat here looks solid.

 

[darjr]

Bastions and Cantrips: Build a Base and Test Cantrips in This Unearthed Arcana

Our latest Unearthed Arcana features the Bastion subsystem from the 2024 Dungeon Master’s Guide, as well as 10 updated cantrips. Read more here!

www.dndbeyond.com

 

[Emberashh]

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised this is how they're designing given how they tried to balance druids by sticking squirrels at 11th level iirc.

Suffice it to say though that this system of theirs isn't going to work out. Its yet another system that exists in isolation from the actual game and many will try to make it work, and they'll either get by by ignoring its problems or they'll homebrew and houserule it to death, and most others will come to realize its the same fundamental problem Exploration has in 5e.

Its there, but it isn't actually a part of the game, and engaging with it will always be a process of stepping out of the game without extensive homebrew or simply ignoring the dissonance.

Not to mention as well that they're positioning this as being in the DMG, which means none of this is actually player facing, which is even more damning evidence of the design not being integrated than what is self evident in the design.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I like what I'm seeing with the bastion system (apart from the fact that the artificer can't even use the smithy).

Main change I'd want to see though is switching the focus away from a bastion per player, and towards a 'party bastion'. Five players, each with their own bastion, and each doing 8 bastion turns per level is just a game of sims.

 

[Imaro]

I like what I'm seeing with the bastion system (apart from the fact that the artificer can't even use the smithy).

Main change I'd want to see though is switching the focus away from a bastion per player, and towards a 'party bastion'. Five players, each with their own bastion, and each doing 8 bastion turns per level is just a game of sims.

I wouldn't mind group rules as well but I (and my players) would prefer a system where they can customize their own bastion.