D&D (2024) Bastion rules: every pub owner is at least 13th level

[Kurotowa]

So yeah, the BP aspect of this is going to be heavily dependent on a game running with lots of downtime.

Yep, which is why they're solidly in the DMG "Optional rules for the right campaign" field rather than the PHB "Core player rules for every campaign" bin. Not every campaign will be right for them. Not every group will enjoy them. But they're a far sight better than the old rules, and as Crawford said in the video are more accommodating for parties that visit their home base every week or two and spend the rest of the time in the field.

Still, if the campaign is a fast paced race against a world ending threat, or a sprawling travelogue across the continent, the Bastion rules are probably not right for it. And I'm okay with that.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Still, if the campaign is a fast paced race against a world ending threat, or a sprawling travelogue across the continent, the Bastion rules are probably not right for it. And I'm okay with that.

If we're talking a world-ending threat, that is high level. That's when my players would be able to acquire an Airship/Spelljammer/Demiplane Bastion that is easier to access while out in the world.

I gave one party a magic item that lets them attune to a doorway/arch somewhere in the world (they chose a door in their home base), and while traveling elsewhere in the world, they could use a different random doorway/arch as a one-way portal trip back to the attuned door. It was used mostly when they knew they were done wherever they were, or when they needed to get the hell out of there, and didn't care about getting back. (The doors had to be on the same plane, but there was an opportunity to enhance the item later so one could evacuate across planes.)

 

[Micah Sweet]

This one sentence from the new Bastion rules guarantees those rules will never see use in my game: "Unlike basic facilities, special facilities can’t be bought; a character gains them through level advancement." Note that "special facilities" include Stables (minimum character level 9th) and Pubs (minimum character level 13th). So why can't my 8th-level character with 10,000 gp build Stables? I can't think of any reasonable in-game explanation. Some sort of multiverse-wide zoning restriction, maybe?

The real answer is that Stables provide arbitrary in-game mechanical benefits not appropriate for characters below 9th-level. Stables generate Bastion Points, or BP (not to be confused with the BP you use to build things in Paizo's Kingmaker adventure path). For various implausible reasons, characters can use BP to acquire magic items. Apparently, Stables (with a capitol "S") are some sort of magical Platonic object which exist beyond the confines of Euclidean geometry and in-game economics.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that D&D rules aren't designed to model any sort of economy in a realistic way. In-game transactions are just abstractions designed to make for entertaining game-play. That being said, I do at least expect there to be some sort of in-game currency which characters can use to purchase or build everyday objects like stables and pubs. In my humble opinion, Stables and Pubs shouldn't be de facto magic items which exist outside the gold-piece economy.

WotC abandoned plausibility for gamability long ago.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Note, this continues to the be the issue with 5e's gold. Its not that people didn't have things to spend gold on, I mean there has been ale and whores forever.

Just ale come 2024.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Never played Baldur's game 1?
Every Pub owner was high level IIRC.

 

[Charlaquin]

This one sentence from the new Bastion rules guarantees those rules will never see use in my game: "Unlike basic facilities, special facilities can’t be bought; a character gains them through level advancement." Note that "special facilities" include Stables (minimum character level 9th) and Pubs (minimum character level 13th). So why can't my 8th-level character with 10,000 gp build Stables? I can't think of any reasonable in-game explanation. Some sort of multiverse-wide zoning restriction, maybe?

The real answer is that Stables provide arbitrary in-game mechanical benefits not appropriate for characters below 9th-level. Stables generate Bastion Points, or BP (not to be confused with the BP you use to build things in Paizo's Kingmaker adventure path). For various implausible reasons, characters can use BP to acquire magic items. Apparently, Stables (with a capitol "S") are some sort of magical Platonic object which exist beyond the confines of Euclidean geometry and in-game economics.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that D&D rules aren't designed to model any sort of economy in a realistic way. In-game transactions are just abstractions designed to make for entertaining game-play. That being said, I do at least expect there to be some sort of in-game currency which characters can use to purchase or build everyday objects like stables and pubs. In my humble opinion, Stables and Pubs shouldn't be de facto magic items which exist outside the gold-piece economy.

This isn’t any different from BD&D or AD&D fighters needing to be 9th level to create a freehold &c.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This isn’t any different from BD&D or AD&D fighters needing to be 9th level to create a freehold &c.

They did not, actually. They needed to build one and be 9th level in order for followers to arrive.

 

[Charlaquin]

They did not, actually. They needed to build one and be 9th level in order for followers to arrive.

That’s not my understanding of what the words in the book mean, but . Point is, arbitrary level restrictions on domain management features are nothing new.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That’s not my understanding of what the words in the book mean, but . Point is, arbitrary level restrictions on domain management features are nothing new.

The restriction on automatic followers is not arbitrary; rather, it is based on the assumption that the fighter's reputation by that point has spread such that people will seek them out to follow them, provided they have a sufficiently impressive base at which to find them.

 

[Maxperson]

They did not, actually. They needed to build one and be 9th level in order for followers to arrive.

1e PHB page 22

"When a fighter obtains 9th level (Lord), he or she may opt to establish a freehold. This is done by building some type of castle and clearing the area in a radius of 20 to 50 miles around the stronghold, making it free from all sorts of hostile creatures. Whenever such a freehold is established and cleared, the fighter will:"

You can't opt to establish it prior to 9th level.