D&D (2024) Bastion - Missing Facilities (ie theres no diplomacy!)

[Stormonu]

Can’t wait to have my Pub when I get to 13th level.

Really can’t wait to have a stables with cool new mount opti—— sorry, I mean make gold by horse trading.

/sarcasm

Yeah, the level requirements on a lot of the facilities is insulting. I'll be dropping most of them, and considering making the base level for Bastions "whenever I feel like giving them out" - or 3rd level as a baseline.

 

[Tonguez]

Yeah, the level requirements on a lot of the facilities is insulting. I'll be dropping most of them, and considering making the base level for Bastions "whenever I feel like giving them out" - or 3rd level as a baseline.

yeah I agree, the level caps just seem stupid, especially with something like a Pub. I was thinking of making them available at low level but maybe put and then put an extra gold cost on adding the bonus stuff until the facility itself levels-up

 

[FitzTheRuke]

yeah I agree, the level caps just seem stupid, especially with something like a Pub. I was thinking of making them available at low level but maybe put and then put an extra gold cost on adding the bonus stuff until the facility itself levels-up

Yeah, I think that each facility should be available early on and what the orders do should follow the level tiers.

I mean, it's strange that they talk about how the Bastions ties into Waterdeep Dragon Heist (where you are deeded a Tavern) but... you're nowhere near Level 13 in that game when it happens - so what, you can't run the Pub?

The answer to that question is: Of course you can. You just can't make all the crazy potions that they gave to the Bastion Pub feature. So, then I ask: Why did they make the Pub create Potions?

And the answer is: Because it's a cool Level 13 ability. This discussion can circle around and around.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Yeah, I think that each facility should be available early on and what the orders do should follow the level tiers.

Not an bad idea to set up a "progression." The pub could start as a Storehouse ("buy wine/ale, sell wine/ale, earn money"), evolve to a Gaming Hall then be (ugh) a "Pub". Although I think they want you to keep the storeroom, add a Gaming Hall, then expand out to a Pub.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Oh, I'm planning to massively expand the Bastion rules with my own version of stuff - but you can quite get into the weeds.

Academy
Archive
Arena
Armory
Atrium
Ballroom
Bank
Barn
Bathhouse
Bedroom
Boathouse/Drydock
Campground
Carriage House
Cave
Courtroom
Corral/Pen
Catacombs
Courtyard
Demiplane
Dining Room
Dock
Dunjon
Divination Chamber
Farm/Orchard
Gaming Hall
Garden
Gatehouse
Guard Room
Graveyard
Grove
Guest House
Guild Hall
Greenhouse
Hospice
Hostel
Hive
Inn
Kitchen
Laboratory
Library
Lighthouse
Meditation Chamber
Menagerie/Kennel
Mill
Mine
Mausoleum/Tomb
Monument/Wonder
Nunnery/Cloister
Music Room
Oasis
Observatory
Office
Parlor
Pier
Pool
Portal
Prison
Pub
Reliquary
Sancristy
Sanctuary
Sanctum
Scriptorium
Slaughterhouse
Smithy
Smokehouse
Stable
Steam House
Storefront
Storehouse
Stage
Summoning Chamber
Teleportation Circle
Theater/Auditorium
Tower
Training Area
Trophy Room
Vault
Vehicle Station
War Room
Winery/Brewery
Workshop

I just read the Bastion rules all the way through. There are a lot of good ideas there. I'm just not a big fan of the principles it's built upon.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Diplomatic stuff requires there to be different cities to be Diplomatic too, and campaigns that require things to be diplomatic about. Doesn't work if you just want to run into a dungeon and kill a dragon.

Oh. How about if it includes the Sending spell? Then you can communicate and give orders remotely.

I think the idea that there is more than one city in the setting is a pretty safe bet most of the time. Enough for the DMG anyway.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah, the level requirements on a lot of the facilities is insulting. I'll be dropping most of them, and considering making the base level for Bastions "whenever I feel like giving them out" - or 3rd level as a baseline.

Agreed. The level requirement stuff is a symptom of what is probably my biggest issue. I just don't see having a bastion as a class feature.

 

[Arilyn]

I'd love the facilities to be examples. It'd be great if players could start a bastion at any level, as long as they can afford to start one. Unusual abilities could be added, but not necessarily from a predetermined list. I'd maybe want a particular facility not listed or have my garden do something different.

Lots of examples, potential costs, either from gold or favours owed, real hirelings that are more than just meeples that vanish and respawn, and ideas for turning already existing buildings into bastions. Players frequently clean out haunted inns or old bandit keeps.

The Bastion event table needs to be more interesting too and should vary depending on what kind of bastion and location. Why does my little church in the middle of Waterdeep have just as much of a chance of being attacked as a keep out on the frontier? Are Waterdeep guards just twiddling their thumbs?

I know the system is meant to just be a mini game for players but I wonder how long the interest in these bastions will hold.

Slightly off topic but why has Downtime been removed?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Not an bad idea to set up a "progression." The pub could start as a Storehouse ("buy wine/ale, sell wine/ale, earn money"), evolve to a Gaming Hall then be (ugh) a "Pub". Although I think they want you to keep the storeroom, add a Gaming Hall, then expand out to a Pub.

You're right, but I feel that (and this is pretty common in D&D) the "descriptive" of "Pub" being held off until level 13 is the problem, not what the mechanics do. In your example - those are all pubs, or at least, could be.

It's the usual "What's in a name?" problem. (And I would answer that question: More than what D&D tends to think, but less than what "simulationist" players tend to think.) Or in other words - we all ought to feel free to change the name/fluff of just about anything, even if we follow RAW, to suit what the story needs.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I wish "Pub" was "Spy Master" or "Intelligence Network". Then it would have less.....cognitive dissonance.